Looking for a country to make a high rentability real estate investment

[flyingadventures662]

I've put 100K in a property in Spain 2 years ago and currently every month I get roughly 900 EUR pure net income after all taxes and expenses.

I'm very happy with the numbers and % rentability of this investment but very unhappy with some things related to Spain and the customer service I get for the management. (No okupas problem, we rent rooms so the money flow is quite stable and really no issues with that).

I'm looking to make a similar investment but in another country where I like generally the things more.

I know it's hard to achieve that ROI, or slightly worse ROI on the expense of getting excellent service.

But from my research if possible anywhere, I could see Batumi in Georgia, Dubai, or probably Cyprus.

I have zero experience in these countries so I'd appreciate if anyone has personal experience or at least has done some research and can quote precise numbers, and suggest contacts for local management. Or of course, suggestions for other countries.

Many thanks.

 

[toums]

Can you detail where more did you buy in Spain and which type of flat and rental (short lets, by month, yearly etc..)

 

[happyjohn]

Sounds like you're doing well in Spain, but I get why you want better service.

Batumi, Georgia could be a good choice, property prices are still low, and the rental yields are decent.

Dubai is great for luxury properties but can be expensive, and Cyprus is also a solid option with good tax advantages.

Personally, I’ve heard good things about property management in Cyprus.

You might want to check out local agencies in those places to get better insights!

 

[toums]

Sounds like you're doing well in Spain, but I get why you want better service.

Batumi, Georgia could be a good choice, property prices are still low, and the rental yields are decent.

Dubai is great for luxury properties but can be expensive, and Cyprus is also a solid option with good tax advantages.

Personally, I’ve heard good things about property management in Cyprus.

You might want to check out local agencies in those places to get better insights!

Batumi has never really taken off despite being talked about for the past 10 years+, and in my opinion, it's VERY seasonal. Some properties in Dubai (or Abu Dhabi) are fine. I’d also add Budapest in Europe. And Bali (if the focus is on yield).

 

[flyingadventures662]

Can you detail where more did you buy in Spain and which type of flat and rental (short lets, by month, yearly etc..)

Alicante, huge apartment, long-term (non-touristical) room rental for minimum a few months. 400-500 per room so 1400 cca entire apartment.

But now you can't get this, price to buy have gone up 20-40% depending on the area so the renatbility is lower.

It was a bargain when we bought it I must admit.

From what I know in the smaller towns or even villages the rentability should be still ridiculously high even now but again the biggest question is whom you will find locally to manage it for you.

2 years ago you were able to buy 3 apartments for ~100K in one small town nearby and rent to students again per room for super high yield - if you find someone local to trust.

 

[flyingadventures662]

Sounds like you're doing well in Spain, but I get why you want better service.

Batumi, Georgia could be a good choice, property prices are still low, and the rental yields are decent.

Dubai is great for luxury properties but can be expensive, and Cyprus is also a solid option with good tax advantages.

Personally, I’ve heard good things about property management in Cyprus.

You might want to check out local agencies in those places to get better insights!

Many thanks I may go a bit higher let's say 120K-150K for more security just looking for something good.

Is Dubai more "reliable" for that than Georgia in your opinion and do you have an idea how these yields can be achieved: long term, rooms, touristical, etc...?

 

[flyingadventures662]

Batumi has never really taken off despite being talked about for the past 10 years+, and in my opinion, it's VERY seasonal. Some properties in Dubai (or Abu Dhabi) are fine. I’d also add Budapest in Europe. And Bali (if the focus is on yield).

Thanks

You surprise me with Budapest, if you put 100K in apartment there, what kind of rent and what % yield can you get, isn't it super low?

How about Tbilisi if it's less seasonal than Batumi?

Also in Dubai can you quote precise numbers: put X money to buy apartment Y, rent on Z type of rental to get how much per month after all expenses?

 

[luap]

ROI is great because the risk of Okupas is included in the rental market pricing. Even if you sell it with a return, and cash out profits (after taxes), you'll struggle to get anywhere near that return without more/different risks.

I say this as somebody who is allergic to keeping even 1 cent in Spain. Move your investment but be willing to accept lower ROI, or just deal with investing in a socialist country.

 

[flyingadventures662]

ROI is great because the risk of Okupas is included in the rental market pricing. Even if you sell it with a return, and cash out profits (after taxes), you'll struggle to get anywhere near that return without more/different risks.

I say this as somebody who is allergic to keeping even 1 cent in Spain. Move your investment but be willing to accept lower ROI, or just deal with investing in a socialist country.

By the way there is practically zero risk of okupas if you rent rooms.

I have spent a lot of time in Spain and I have met many people from there, both investors and "casual people".

While okupas are risk if you rent the entire property to one person/family that "encapsulates" themselves alone inside, I have asked a lot and I have never ever to this date heard about a single case of okupas if you rent independent rooms to different people who live together in a shared apartment. Also from the experience of the people who manage our apartment and I guess tens of others apartments during many years.

With that being said I'm completely open to what you say and tha's my goal, even if I get a bit lower ROI, I would go somewhre else.

Do you have specific suggestions which come at least close to this ROI numbers?

 

[MarkusCostigan]

El Salvador.

 

[Frankie]

You make 10% NET after all costs? That's pretty amazing.

I would advise in general, stick to your circle of competence.

If you can get 10% net, keep doing what you're doing. It's a lot harder to manage remotely and hope that mgmt companies don't steal from you. Also I have heard nothing but bad things about the quality of real estate in Dubai, Cyprus. Batumi is apparently a seaside resort so I guess during the winter expect it to be dead.

In general I love Charlie Munger's advice: "I'm smart in spots and I stay near these spots"

EDIT: OK now that I've read the rest of your posts it's clear that it's mostly because you bought it as a bargain and you're unlikely to get similar ROIs now...

 

[369]

You won't like the answer but #1 in real estate currently in my eyes is Russia

 

[flyingadventures662]

You make 10% NET after all costs? That's pretty amazing.

I would advise in general, stick to your circle of competence.

If you can get 10% net, keep doing what you're doing. It's a lot harder to manage remotely and hope that mgmt companies don't steal from you. Also I have heard nothing but bad things about the quality of real estate in Dubai, Cyprus. Batumi is apparently a seaside resort so I guess during the winter expect it to be dead.

In general I love Charlie Munger's advice: "I'm smart in spots and I stay near these spots"

EDIT: OK now that I've read the rest of your posts it's clear that it's mostly because you bought it as a bargain and you're unlikely to get similar ROIs now...

"It's a lot harder to manage remotely " - I DO manage remotely. That's what I don;t like the management people.

Could you please tell me what do you mean by "quality" of the real estate in Dubai?

I'm pretty happy to put even 150K and get 1K net after that, from what I read it should be doable there?

 

[flyingadventures662]

You won't like the answer but #1 in real estate currently in my eyes is Russia

Can you throw some exact numbers please?

I'm coming from pretty clear expectations and I want to compare

Like put X in property get Y net per month after all tax and expenses by Z model of renting?

 

[flyingadventures662]

Spain is the best country to chill out, retire in and enjoy life if you don't need money

And the worst country if you want to do any meaningful business which implies serious attitude and responsibility

I guess that's why I'm looking somewhere else

 

[Dreamy]

Why do you only look at Europe, which is already used up, as well as all sorts of countries like El Salvador or Russia, where there is a war now. Why don't you consider, for example, Asia or Latin America. Look at Thailand, look at Bangkok. Yes, there is nothing to do there with 100 thousand usd, but in terms of profitability and stability, a good apartment in the central business district of Bangkok can easily provide an excellent annual stable income, and is also quite liquid. And this is not a socialist country, there is no war there and most likely there will not be one in the medium term. The country is developing and Bangkok is a super modern metropolis with all the consequences, but the prices are still lower than, for example, in European capitals. Just check some top real estate site.

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

You won't like the answer but #1 in real estate currently in my eyes is Russia

Yes and No. Being on the case at the moment, and keeping tabs with the market in St Petersburg and Moscow, both on the resale and the new development markets, have just reached a couple of interesting deals with a potential 7% net yield. Nothing to write home about. And believe me, I've done (already) a quite extensive due diligence and spoken to many RE firms thanks to my ability to communicate in the language and various ties to the country. Best options if you have no interest whatsoever in using the property is go for the newly-built small 25-35 sqm studios which offer the best net yield. In my case, as I'm looking at 1-bed at least it is a bit more tricky to get a good deal on new developments, so I'm evaluating the resale market.

That being said, if (and always a big IF) capital appreciation does materialize, that 7% could turn out to be 10-12% annualized in 5 years if/when things settle down geopolitically. But again, that's based on a large assumption I'm not sure everyone's willing to go with.

Hope this helps.

NVO

 

[flyingadventures662]

Why do you only look at Europe, which is already used up, as well as all sorts of countries like El Salvador or Russia, where there is a war now. Why don't you consider, for example, Asia or Latin America. Look at Thailand, look at Bangkok. Yes, there is nothing to do there with 100 thousand usd, but in terms of profitability and stability, a good apartment in the central business district of Bangkok can easily provide an excellent annual stable income, and is also quite liquid. And this is not a socialist country, there is no war there and most likely there will not be one in the medium term. The country is developing and Bangkok is a super modern metropolis with all the consequences, but the prices are still lower than, for example, in European capitals. Just check some top real estate site.

I never said I'm considering only Europe, that's why I opened the thread to ask for more suggestions.

I think South America may have similar issues to Spain in terms of reliability but I'm open to Asia.

Do you have particular experience there and can you recommend certain connections?

 

[Dreamy]

I never said I'm considering only Europe, that's why I opened the thread to ask for more suggestions.

I think South America may have similar issues to Spain in terms of reliability but I'm open to Asia.

Do you have particular experience there and can you recommend certain connections?

You don't need connections, just ask chatgpt what are the best agencies in bangkok, and try sites of all of them. Also ask chatgpt about what are the best districts in Bangkok to have an appartment or long term rent - there are two such kind of districts as I know, all of them near main road and in the center.
Btw most of the agencies can work with USDT if this is interesting for you.

 

[Cloudbanck]

If you look at places that are growing fast and are obviously going to be much richer in the future, along with real estate appreciation, Id look at South East Asia. Vietnam, Cambodia, and yes Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines and possibly Malaysia.

Latam America is stagnant, and so is Europe, Japan and the Arab world except the oil rich Gulf countries. (30 years ago though, eastern Europe was a great place to invest in real estate, an apartment in Vilnius bought in 1995 was a slam dunk.)

Then I think safe haven places with low tax that attract capital and high net worth individuals will just keep getting more attractive in the future. So Im bullish on real estate in UAE/Dubai, Singapore, Monaco, Cayman Islands and similar places.

Finally Africa is the only place that has a strong demographic tailwind, but it's not so easy to invest there as a foreigner as property rights and rule of law is weak, and land registry systems are bad. Still worth the risk, and when leadership goes from disastrous to merely bad, one can make a lot of money in African real estate.