Solution for my crypto business - willing to hire if I like the solution

[Coin]

Hello everyone,

I'm currently operating European company which trades cryptocurrencies on various P2P markets like Localbitcoins and so on. My business mainly consists of buying bitcoins from people who like to stay anonymous and are looking for painless and fast transaction. I pay them mainly using SEPA and SWIFT wires.
Due to new regulations in my country which require me to verify everyone with ID and selfie I'll most likely lose all of my customers so I'm looking for some possible solutions.

I'm looking for a solution for this problem and my requirements are:

Country without regulations for cryptocurrencies preferably in Europe - there can be some regulations but I'm looking for country that doesn't require me to verify customer's identity. I know that sooner or later it'll be regulated in every European country but short term solution is also fine.
I need a good bank account (not EMI) which would allow me to do around 100 transactions monthly - bank is the most important thing for me. I need fast and reliable bank account.
I'm not looking to go offshore, I don't mind paying tax. My main priority is to be able to continue in my business.
I'd prefer country with simple accounting as I'd like to do it myself. I'm not looking to move out from my country and I wouldn't even be able to visit the country because of coronavirus. I'd be operating the company from my current country (in Europe) and everything would need to be done without me traveling.


I'll be thankful for every idea and if I like it I might end up using your service.

 

[Gediminas]

Hey,

As per law, financial institutions will require you to have proper KYC procedures at the place.

Keep in mind, even if your company was incorporated in another jurisdiction, your effective management place of the business will still be your residency country (unless you create an economical substance in the other country), so you will have to comply with your local laws anyway.

In any case, most of the financial institutions will require you to have KYC procedures.

P.S. for the crypto activities, most of the doors in fully licensed banks will be closed, so your best choice is still an EMI that is crypto-friendly.

 

[JohnLocke]

P.S. for the crypto activities, most of the doors in fully licensed banks will be closed, so your best choice is still an EMI that is crypto-friendly.

I totally understand that part, but I wonder where the EMI's get the underlaying banking facilities from?

 

[Gediminas]

I totally understand that part, but I wonder where the EMI's get the underlaying banking facilities from?

From the banks, obviously. The thing is that the banks usually refuse to work with crypto because there is additional risk involved, which will require additional human resources to deal with it. It's similar to why retail banks don't onboard companies from high-risk industries. On the opposite note, the EMI's are more than happy to work with those, because it's their core of the business and they have compliance teams ready for that.

 

[Sols]

Most EMIs are using Bank of Lithuania (the central bank of Lithuania, not a commercial bank) to access SEPA and while Bank of Lithuania on paper isn't very happy about crypto or gambling, they seem to tolerate a lot of it. The EMIs have no or very unreliable connections to SWIFT for their clients engaged in crypto and other high-risk businesses. So if your business needs to access other currencies than EUR and process payments outside of SEPA, you very often will need to find other solutions.

 

[John82]

As far as I understand, now in Europe, there is nothing at all to fully satisfy your needs. I know some solutions in the Asian region, a company, and a bank account. Nothing complicated in terms of registration and account opening. After opening a company, you can authorize it on cryptocurrency exchanges and easily send funds to them. Any number of transactions and amounts up to 50,000USD (Maybe more) passes without problems. Despite the fact that the country has a requirement for licensing activities, the bank is still calmly looking at transfers to exchanges.
Another problem is that many exchanges do not send funds on SWIFT bank details, so Etana Custody must be used for transfer out.
And one more problem is that the bank account can not be opened remotely. But you can find a ready-made company or hire some locals or something else.

 

[Paper Chaser]

Ahhh, a fellow mate operating the exact same business like me and struggling with the exact same troubles I've faced in the past 6 months!

I have searched for an answer for the last 6 months and recently found the source of the problem.

Shoot me a private message, so I can share it with you. If you do, please also let me know which platforms you're part of exactly so I can be sure of your situation and may help you.

 

[Paper Chaser]

As far as I understand, now in Europe, there is nothing at all to fully satisfy your needs. I know some solutions in the Asian region, a company, and a bank account. Nothing complicated in terms of registration and account opening. After opening a company, you can authorize it on cryptocurrency exchanges and easily send funds to them. Any number of transactions and amounts up to 50,000USD (Maybe more) passes without problems. Despite the fact that the country has a requirement for licensing activities, the bank is still calmly looking at transfers to exchanges.
Another problem is that many exchanges do not send funds on SWIFT bank details, so Etana Custody must be used for transfer out.
And one more problem is that the bank account can not be opened remotely. But you can find a ready-made company or hire some locals or something else.

Is Asia considered to be the best choice for businesses involved in Cryptos?

I mean, most of the worlds leading Crypto Exchanges and trading platforms are located in Asia. Is it because Cryptos are still quite if not completely unregulated over there?

Your post just made me think of integrating some Asian company/structure into my business.

 

[OffshoreExpat]

Hi @Paper Chaser ,

I have a similar problem. I also trade on Localbitcoin and i'm trying to set up my company in Malta for that, however all the agents i've talked to have warned me of the biggest problem, banking.

They claim that finding a bank for my activity is difficult. Have you solved that? Do you mind if i send you a PM too?

Thanks.

 

[otcable]

@OffshoreExpat check current exchanges that accept Fiat and where do they bank. There won't be a bank that will gladly accept you don't comply, I doubt about that unless you are in South America region or as people stated here Asia.

That is the reason why Estonia/Malta/etc have crypto licenses. You will need a crypto license if you want to handle users funds, there is no way around that. You can manage up to a certain point with a personal bank account. Temporal solution.

 

[OffshoreExpat]

Hello @otcable , thanks for the advise.

I trade with my own money and i've talked this with local agents, and as long as i don't trade in behalf of anyone else or use anybody else's money, there is no license needed.

However what looks to be the most difficult part are Banks, specially the good ones, it looks like they are not crypto friendly at all. On the other side there seem to be EMIs that are crypto friendly , but i've read horrible stories of many of them (both big and small EMIs).

 

[Paper Chaser]

I also trade on Localbitcoin and i'm trying to set up my company in Malta for that, however all the agents i've talked to have warned me of the biggest problem, banking.

Seems like we have had the same agencies.

Let me ask you some. Basically everyone is kindly invited to share their answers to the following questions.

Why would you need a bank account in Malta anyways? Why would it matter in our business anyways?

Just asked these questions to all agents/agencies I was in touch with, they could not even deliver one single valid argument. None. Nothing. Some did not even try to. To be honest, some of them even told me not to bank in Malta, but to look into other countries for the banking part.

From what I‘ve read on this forum so far, Maltese banks slowly go down like Cyprese banks. Plus, like you already mentioned they don‘t like or even accept high risk clients anymore. Maybe that‘s why they are struggling. I don‘t remember the exact reasons right now, you might need to look it up yourself!

That being said, what would they offer to us what other countries don‘t? In reality, we are the ones having to consider whether a bank is worth our money instead of begging for anyone to accept us.

There are some banks I will look into myself soon, like Dukascopy, Wirex, Seba, Sygnum.

In the end it does not matter if you go for some EMIs or traditional banks as long as you‘re a 100% on the legal side and are able to prove it anytime someone asks. You may keep 2-3 different bank accounts at the same time to avoid having to do unnecessary daily paperwork. Personally I‘m planning on keeping 2 banks/EMIs which work the best for me, one for receiving third party payments and one for buying Cryptos.

I trade with my own money and i've talked this with local agents, and as long as i don't trade in behalf of anyone else or use anybody else's money, there is no license needed.

I don‘t know for the bank transfer/EMI transfer P2P business, but for Gift Card/similar kind of things P2P business you don‘t need a license at all from what I‘ve experienced so far. I guess @otcable is probably right if it‘s a bank transfer/EMI transfer P2P business since you would basically store your customers money in your >wallet< (bank account/EMI) and therefore be considered as a >real< Exchange which ofcourse needs a license and is strongly regulated.

Actually that was the reason I was posting here. It sounded to me like @Coin was looking for many answers, not only regarding the banking part which I honestly am just going to explore myself soon.

 

[OffshoreExpat]

Thanks a lot @Paper Chaser ,

Why would you need a bank account in Malta anyways? Why would it matter in our business anyways?

To me personally is not about banking in Malta but to bank in a good bank, one that will not suddenly block you just because they want or they change their policy, which can happen with EMIs, they claim to be crypto friendly, but then you receive a payment with the word "bitcoin" on the description, and you are blocked. Also the way they do it, physical banks tend to give you a warning, some may even froze your account (never happened to me) but still give you access to the service while you explain yourself or otherwise take your funds out. But as far as EMI they first shut you down, no way to know what just happened and then you enter a battle with online customer service which takes forever.

I still believe a lot of EMIs are great, they seem legit, worth working with and i definitely will open accounts with some, but i would like not to depend entirely on them.

I guess @otcable is probably right if it‘s a bank transfer/EMI transfer P2P business since you would basically store your customers money in your >wallet< (bank account/EMI) and therefore be considered as a >real< Exchange which ofcourse needs a license and is strongly regulated.

This part i don't get, when am i storing clients money? for example:

i buy 0.1 btc at 1000€ price on kraken and send that to my wallet on Localbitcoins.
I publish to sell the 0.1BTC on Localbitcoins for 1100€ and when a client buys it, Localbitcoins holds my crypto on escrow.
He sends me the 1100€ and when i receive i release the escrow.
I made a profit of 100€ and repeat the process.

Why do you think that i'm acting like an exchange in this business model? @otcable could you explain please?

Thanks.

 

[RobertNozick]

Thanks a lot @Paper Chaser ,

To me personally is not about banking in Malta but to bank in a good bank, one that will not suddenly block you just because they want or they change their policy, which can happen with EMIs, they claim to be crypto friendly, but then you receive a payment with the word "bitcoin" on the description, and you are blocked. Also the way they do it, physical banks tend to give you a warning, some may even froze your account (never happened to me) but still give you access to the service while you explain yourself or otherwise take your funds out. But as far as EMI they first shut you down, no way to know what just happened and then you enter a battle with online customer service which takes forever.

I still believe a lot of EMIs are great, they seem legit, worth working with and i definitely will open accounts with some, but i would like not to depend entirely on them.



This part i don't get, when am i storing clients money? for example:

i buy 0.1 btc at 1000€ price on kraken and send that to my wallet on Localbitcoins.
I publish to sell the 0.1BTC on Localbitcoins for 1100€ and when a client buys it, Localbitcoins holds my crypto on escrow.
He sends me the 1100€ and when i receive i release the escrow.
I made a profit of 100€ and repeat the process.

Why do you think that i'm acting like an exchange in this business model? @otcable could you explain please?

Thanks.

Which benefits do you get by doing your business as a company instead of as an individual moving to those countries that don't tax bitcoin capital gain?

 

[OffshoreExpat]

Which benefits do you get by doing your business as a company instead of as an individual moving to those countries that don't tax bitcoin capital gain?

Personal circumstances.

I cannot leave the country where i live now, and where i leave capital gains on bitcoin are taxed .

 

[Clip]

Personal circumstances.

I cannot leave the country where i live now, and where i leave capital gains on bitcoin are taxed .

Convert it to a Stablecoin and wait for better times where you can move

 

[sinos]

Hello everyone,

I'm currently operating European company which trades cryptocurrencies on various P2P markets like Localbitcoins and so on. My business mainly consists of buying bitcoins from people who like to stay anonymous and are looking for painless and fast transaction. I pay them mainly using SEPA and SWIFT wires.
Due to new regulations in my country which require me to verify everyone with ID and selfie I'll most likely lose all of my customers so I'm looking for some possible solutions.

I'm looking for a solution for this problem and my requirements are:

Country without regulations for cryptocurrencies preferably in Europe - there can be some regulations but I'm looking for country that doesn't require me to verify customer's identity. I know that sooner or later it'll be regulated in every European country but short term solution is also fine.
I need a good bank account (not EMI) which would allow me to do around 100 transactions monthly - bank is the most important thing for me. I need fast and reliable bank account.
I'm not looking to go offshore, I don't mind paying tax. My main priority is to be able to continue in my business.
I'd prefer country with simple accounting as I'd like to do it myself. I'm not looking to move out from my country and I wouldn't even be able to visit the country because of coronavirus. I'd be operating the company from my current country (in Europe) and everything would need to be done without me traveling.


I'll be thankful for every idea and if I like it I might end up using your service.

Check my reply here if that can work for you, then you can send me a PM, I can share the details if you like. Its been working for me for the last 2 years.

 

[Coin]

Inbox me. I have a few questions for you, to better understand what you're trying to do. If you can answer them, I can ask a bank manager I know if they'd be willing to allow such transactions. In the jurisdiction I have in mind, if the bank manager is okay with what you're doing, you should have minimal-to-now governmental oversight.

How do you message people here? I can't seem to find option to message people

 

[N0b0dy]

Thanks a lot @Paper Chaser ,

To me personally is not about banking in Malta but to bank in a good bank, one that will not suddenly block you just because they want or they change their policy, which can happen with EMIs, they claim to be crypto friendly, but then you receive a payment with the word "bitcoin" on the description, and you are blocked. Also the way they do it, physical banks tend to give you a warning, some may even froze your account (never happened to me) but still give you access to the service while you explain yourself or otherwise take your funds out. But as far as EMI they first shut you down, no way to know what just happened and then you enter a battle with online customer service which takes forever.

I still believe a lot of EMIs are great, they seem legit, worth working with and i definitely will open accounts with some, but i would like not to depend entirely on them.



This part i don't get, when am i storing clients money? for example:

i buy 0.1 btc at 1000€ price on kraken and send that to my wallet on Localbitcoins.
I publish to sell the 0.1BTC on Localbitcoins for 1100€ and when a client buys it, Localbitcoins holds my crypto on escrow.
He sends me the 1100€ and when i receive i release the escrow.
I made a profit of 100€ and repeat the process.

Why do you think that i'm acting like an exchange in this business model? @otcable could you explain please?

Thanks.

Hello everyone.
Is there someone who have found a solution for this kind of activity?
I got a Malta based company but seems to be impossibile to find a bank that can support you do this kind of business.

 

[aplnx]

Personal circumstances.

I cannot leave the country where i live now, and where i leave capital gains on bitcoin are taxed .

This is the best solution I have found for while. I just started to think about opening an offshore. I am right now researching banking options. Mercure is currently on my radar and I just want to know if It works with no problem with, for example, coinbase.