Taking out a loan and leaving the country

[Golden Fleece]

There is nothing criminal with defaulting on a loan

Well, you must live in a sick and twisted society. Accepting a bank loan with no intention of ever repaying it is bank fraud in any civilized nation. Or else you do not understand basic criminal law.

If you haven't noticed this is an anonymous account and I'm logging in via Tor.

See, this whole line of inquiry is already making you think and act like a criminal. It is not a healthy mental place to be, especially at an age where your brain is not fully developed (which does not occur until about age 25).

 

[Marzio]

I know it may sound stupid but from my point of view this is basically free money and it would be a nice head start since I'm in my 20s.

You should go ahead with your plan and licence your story to Amazon Prime so i can watch you on my couch while eating cheap potates.

You'll earn twice, one time from the bank and a second time from royalties that Amazon will pay you.

Look at Jordan Belfort, the guy stole millions and now he is a f*****g legend, DiCaprio did a movie acting as him and now he is selling 60K seminars teaching people how he did what he did.

The only thing is that in the meantime you'll have to find a jail in a territorial taxation country so that the royaltyes that Amazon will pay will be tax free!

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Well, you must live in a sick and twisted society. Accepting a bank loan with no intention of ever repaying it is bank fraud in any civilized nation. Or else you do not understand basic criminal law.

Thank you for defending poor and defenseless banks. Rules of society are based on contracts, not on abstract intentions. And defrauding a fraudster (a bank) is a good and moral thing.

See, this whole line of inquiry is already making you think and act like a criminal. It is not a healthy mental place to be, especially at an age where your brain is not fully developed (which does not occur until about age 25).

Are you a qualified psychologist to give such an opinion? This guy is smart and already understands how things really work.

 

[JimBeam]

I know a guy that did the same thing (Europe but non EU country) and left for US. It was a smaller amount 7-8k EUR (about 10k USD at the time). Bank was sending him numerous letters trying to make him pay the debt or to try and reach some kind of arrangement/settlement. As he is not there and there's no response - the bank wen to court, court couldn't do anything as he's not responding. It took them a while to determine that he's not in the country so they completed the case without him (he could restart the case once he's back as he couldn't bring his defense in front of the court) and now with the judgment the bank took it to bailiff to try and find assets (he has none) and as there is none the bailiff had to close the case. This whole process took couple of years! The bank may restart the process for another 10years with bailiff if they suspect he's back or has any assets.

I also know people that go to UAE to work (ordinary jobs) and after 6 months the bank would allow them to take the cash loan. They take the loan and do not repay to the bank. The bank takes them to court (via a video link/mobile phone app!). They would claim in front of the judge that the money was used to support his family abroad of for the urgent surgery of a family member and that they can't repay the bank. The court orders him to pay court expenses and that's it and sometimes like 10% of the loan amount, something nothing... BUT this person is now blacklisted at UAE credit bureau in and no other bank in UAE would allow that person to open an account (and his bank would close the bank account he had - so basically he won't be able to bank anymore in UAE). I know some that even stayed there after that. They just ask for their company to pay them out via check that they cash out at the machine and pay everything via cash or via exchange offices (bills) and some take the money and leave UAE and use it to restart their lives somewhere else. I forgot what's the amount below they won't open criminal case against you (not sure if it's 100k, 150 or or 200k AED but I can find that in a chat I had with one of the guys that did this). This is much quicker than in the previous case and would last a couple of months or so...

Generally speaking this is a bad idea and I would never advise anyone to do such thing.
But if you want to do it - make sure that you know what amount would not get a criminal against you (than as an offense or small court case).

 

[RealDude]

Assholes who flee abroad to avoid paying child support have worse cards to play, because authorities worldwide support each other to force offenders to pay. That's why I can't believe that even small debts aren't prosecuted worldwide.

 

[Golden Fleece]

That's why I can't believe that even small debts aren't prosecuted worldwide.

How could you possibly do it? Even six-figure judgments are typically cost-prohibitive to enforce.

One of the nice things about the U.S. is that, if a debtor has assets, attorneys will accept a judgment enforcement case on a contingency basis (i.e., a share of the recovery, which is usually a 25% to 33% fee). So, there is no risk, or out-of-pocket costs, to the judgment creditor.

As far as I know, most other legal systems do not work that way, especially civil law jurisdictions. You must pay an attorney up front -- and still risk not getting any recovery.

 

[369]

People writing here that banks are "loaning" money are simply naiv.Loan has a defenition and actually what banks are doing are not loans but financial services by law
All they do is create virtual money out of air (non existend money) for which you have to pay interest plus non existend initial.
They don't loan existend money they create new money out of air.
So people thinking the bank is losing anything when not getting paid back are simple naiv and uneducated.
All the bank is losing is profit and nothing else or someone wanna explain to me how a bank can lose virtual money which is only in their system.
Why you think banks are selling bad debts for 10-25% of its value and still make a profit ?

 

[zzzzzz]

Hi everyone,

I'm living in an Eastern European EU country and looking to get out of the EU asap. I have a regular 9-5 job at the moment, which means I can easily get a 30-40k euro loan from pretty much any bank.

I already have a country in mind that I am planning to relocate to, a job waiting for me there (same company but different legal entity) and an employer willing to "sponsor" my work permit / permanent residency.

I was thinking about taking out a cash loan before moving out. I would pay back maybe 1-2 installments and would stop paying it back right after "signing out" of my home country. I also don't have any assets the bank could take.

Would this be considered fraud? Is this a bad idea? Let me know.

I know it may sound stupid but from my point of view this is basically free money and it would be a nice head start since I'm in my 20s.

Thanks.

How would you extend your passport? What about criminal background check when you apply/extend residency? I know a guy who did something similar, he is hiding somewhere in Carribean for 15 years now, his family at home is often visited by the Police. His kids basically don't have father anymore.

 

[Golden Fleece]

How would you extend your passport? What about criminal background check when you apply/extend residency? I know a guy who did something similar, he is hiding somewhere in Carribean for 15 years now, his family at home is often visited by the Police. His kids basically don't have father anymore.

That is an excellent point. If his conduct rises to the level of bank fraud (which it likely would, if the authorities can prove no intent to pay back the loan when he applied for it), then he would have a criminal record that would likely thwart a residency application in most countries.

I am not sure it would affect his ability to renew a passport. That would depend on the laws of his country. But a criminal record would affect his ability to obtain a second citizenship.

 

[GlowAndFlow]

I know a guy that did the same thing (Europe but non EU country) and left for US. It was a smaller amount 7-8k EUR (about 10k USD at the time). Bank was sending him numerous letters trying to make him pay the debt or to try and reach some kind of arrangement/settlement. As he is not there and there's no response - the bank wen to court, court couldn't do anything as he's not responding. It took them a while to determine that he's not in the country so they completed the case without him (he could restart the case once he's back as he couldn't bring his defense in front of the court) and now with the judgment the bank took it to bailiff to try and find assets (he has none) and as there is none the bailiff had to close the case. This whole process took couple of years! The bank may restart the process for another 10years with bailiff if they suspect he's back or has any assets.

I also know people that go to UAE to work (ordinary jobs) and after 6 months the bank would allow them to take the cash loan. They take the loan and do not repay to the bank. The bank takes them to court (via a video link/mobile phone app!). They would claim in front of the judge that the money was used to support his family abroad of for the urgent surgery of a family member and that they can't repay the bank. The court orders him to pay court expenses and that's it and sometimes like 10% of the loan amount, something nothing... BUT this person is now blacklisted at UAE credit bureau in and no other bank in UAE would allow that person to open an account (and his bank would close the bank account he had - so basically he won't be able to bank anymore in UAE). I know some that even stayed there after that. They just ask for their company to pay them out via check that they cash out at the machine and pay everything via cash or via exchange offices (bills) and some take the money and leave UAE and use it to restart their lives somewhere else. I forgot what's the amount below they won't open criminal case against you (not sure if it's 100k, 150 or or 200k AED but I can find that in a chat I had with one of the guys that did this). This is much quicker than in the previous case and would last a couple of months or so...

Generally speaking this is a bad idea and I would never advise anyone to do such thing.
But if you want to do it - make sure that you know what amount would not get a criminal against you (than as an offense or small court case).

That second story is crazy! Especially since the UAE are so harsh on other "transgressions".
I understand that if you flee the country, pay for a surgery for yourself or someone else and then dont pay the bank that you probably can get away from it being a criminal fraud, but why would the court, if its not able to get jurisdiction, ever award the plaintiff with only the court costs? Doesnt make sense.

 

[Golden Fleece]

That second story is crazy! Especially since the UAE are so harsh on other "transgressions".
I understand that if you flee the country, pay for a surgery for yourself or someone else and then dont pay the bank that you probably can get away from it being a criminal fraud, but why would the court, if its not able to get jurisdiction, ever award the plaintiff with only the court costs? Doesnt make sense.

His statement did not make sense: "The court orders him to pay court expenses and that's it and sometimes like 10% of the loan amount." In most common law countries, if a court awards court costs to a plaintiff then it means that the plaintiff won its case and received a money judgment. No judgment = no court costs.

By citing "10% of the loan amount," he likely meant that the creditor -- rather than proceeding with litigation -- accepted a low settlement amount when it discovered that the debtor lived outside the country and also possessed no in-country assets. As always, you need to know the laws of your specific country.

 

[JimBeam]

I understand that if you flee the country, pay for a surgery for yourself or someone else and then dont pay the bank that you probably can get away from it being a criminal fraud, but why would the court, if its not able to get jurisdiction, ever award the plaintiff with only the court costs? Doesnt make sense.

It depends from the case to case and from the judge to judge. These are considered a small amounts so you're not taken to jail for that or anything (up to a certain limit). But they are blacklisted in financial institutions there for life. I've just checked it up and the case I know took 150k AED loan and had to pay back 10k AED. If you go over 200K and leave country they'll hunt you through interpol.

 

[JosephLL]

Thank you for defending poor and defenseless banks. Rules of society are based on contracts, not on abstract intentions. And defrauding a fraudster (a bank) is a good and moral thing.

Are you a qualified psychologist to give such an opinion? This guy is smart and already understands how things really work.

What @Golden Fleece is not realizing is:

There is absolutely nothing in any law whatsoever that designates bank's -1|+1 accounting nullities as money. Only central bank's liabilities are money by law. What makes private bank's debt defacto money is:

1 An accounting frauds of: aggregating deposits belonging to different clients and classifying a distributed "loan" (nothing has been loaned!) as an asset which is against all ifrs/gaap definitions on what constitutes an asset.

2 Our acceptance to use those nullities as means of exchange.

Furthermore, private bank can always on its own discretion forgive someone's debts. And be sure it does to some. But, It's a "big club & you & I ain't invited".

And furthermore, bank can create its own capital with a stroke of a pen, like Credit Suisse did in 2008. A shitload of billions to become solvent again.

"A process so simple that a mind is repelled"

 

[GlowAndFlow]

It depends from the case to case and from the judge to judge. These are considered a small amounts so you're not taken to jail for that or anything (up to a certain limit). But they are blacklisted in financial institutions there for life. I've just checked it up and the case I know took 150k AED loan and had to pay back 10k AED. If you go over 200K and leave country they'll hunt you through interpol.

I get that, but it just doesnt make sense to me that if they somehow do manage to sue you, the courts don´t order you to pay it back. I get that they couldn´t say take your assets easily but that the judgemnt is for only the court costs doesnt make sense to me :O

Pretty interesting though. Was it like"pay minimum the court cases or youre kicked out of the country"? or ...

His statement did not make sense: "The court orders him to pay court expenses and that's it and sometimes like 10% of the loan amount." In most common law countries, if a court awards court costs to a plaintiff then it means that the plaintiff won its case and received a money judgment. No judgment = no court costs.

By citing "10% of the loan amount," he likely meant that the creditor -- rather than proceeding with litigation -- accepted a low settlement amount when it discovered that the debtor lived outside the country and also possessed no in-country assets. As always, you need to know the laws of your specific country.

Yeah, that makes far more sense.
But he also said the guys would keep staying in the UAE just using cash.


I imagine the scenario was something like this:
Guys does this loan thingy -> moves his residence back to home country-> ges sued-> settles ->comes back because it was a civil trial and not criminal because he told them it was used for surgery.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Guys, relax:

Police solve just 2% of all major crimes

When police arrest a suspect who is then convicted of the crime, it is a rare exception rather than the rule in the US.

theconversation.com

 

[GlowAndFlow]

Guys, relax:

Police solve just 2% of all major crimes

When police arrest a suspect who is then convicted of the crime, it is a rare exception rather than the rule in the US.

theconversation.com

I remember when I was lik 15 years old and my locked moped was stolen in the city square 1 block from the main police station, with a live camera feed right above it.

First major thing I had bought for my own money.

They wouldn´t even look at the camera.
it was major case for me haha, broke my heart/trust in the system right there.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I remember when I was lik 15 years old and my locked moped was stolen in the city square 1 block from the main police station, with a live camera feed right above it.

First major thing I had bought for my own money.

They wouldn´t even look at the camera.
it was major case for me haha, broke my heart/trust in the system right there.

If you brought a box of donuts popo might have done something

 

[wellington]

Hi everyone,

I'm living in an Eastern European EU country and looking to get out of the EU asap. I have a regular 9-5 job at the moment, which means I can easily get a 30-40k euro loan from pretty much any bank.

I already have a country in mind that I am planning to relocate to, a job waiting for me there (same company but different legal entity) and an employer willing to "sponsor" my work permit / permanent residency.

I was thinking about taking out a cash loan before moving out. I would pay back maybe 1-2 installments and would stop paying it back right after "signing out" of my home country. I also don't have any assets the bank could take.

Would this be considered fraud? Is this a bad idea? Let me know.

I know it may sound stupid but from my point of view this is basically free money and it would be a nice head start since I'm in my 20s.

Thanks.

Knew a guy called Richie Dillon back in the day, he had ideas like this, just got out of a Asian jail after some stupid ideas similar to above.

 

[JimBeam]

But he also said the guys would keep staying in the UAE just using cash.

Yes, actually it's a girl...

I imagine the scenario was something like this:
Guys does this loan thingy -> moves his residence back to home country-> ges sued-> settles ->comes back because it was a civil trial and not criminal because he told them it was used for surgery.

If it's a "smaller amount" no need to move out (but you need to respond to the court hearings etc).
If it's bigger then even doing so won't help as they'll open interpol warrant...

I mean people declare bankruptcy all the time.
Bank had no cover for this loan as this is cash loan and that's pretty much it...

 

[010cents]

Eastern Europe, loan and run? No, you're going to get hunted down by whoever criminal runs the bank.