Taking out a loan and leaving the country

[Dillon]

Hi everyone,

I'm living in an Eastern European EU country and looking to get out of the EU asap. I have a regular 9-5 job at the moment, which means I can easily get a 30-40k euro loan from pretty much any bank.

I already have a country in mind that I am planning to relocate to, a job waiting for me there (same company but different legal entity) and an employer willing to "sponsor" my work permit / permanent residency.

I was thinking about taking out a cash loan before moving out. I would pay back maybe 1-2 installments and would stop paying it back right after "signing out" of my home country. I also don't have any assets the bank could take.

Would this be considered fraud? Is this a bad idea? Let me know.

I know it may sound stupid but from my point of view this is basically free money and it would be a nice head start since I'm in my 20s.

Thanks.

 

[Sols]

Would this be considered fraud?

Yes.

Depending on applicable law, it's egregious enough that you're not just committing a breach of contract (civil case, the bank can at most sue you), but you're committing fraud (criminal case, law enforcement can go after you). Would they for 50,000? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how easy it is to track you down and what reach they have in your new country. But they can make life difficult for you in your home country.

Is this a bad idea?

Yes.

I know it may sound stupid but from my point of view this is basically free money and it would be a nice head start since I'm in my 20s.

It's free money until your passport is revoked or you're arrested upon arriving home to visit family for the holidays.

Don't ruin your life at 20.

 

[Dillon]

Thanks for the reply.

So I have 2 things to take care of. The risk of this being handled as a criminal case and possible passport revocation.

There is absolutely no way my passport would get revoked due to debt and looking at the law on travel documents this is not even a possibility. Furthermore I have searched through Google and couldn't find a single case of this happening to someone. And we have a lot of people owing millions in taxes.

That being said, I can always consult a lawyer on this.

When it comes to being charged for fraud, I agree that this is a possibility. But what is the difference between not being able to pay back a loan due to getting sick or fired and not paying it back on purpose? For all they know I got mental issues from Covid and can't or won't find a new job.

The only bank fraud cases I could find on Google are related to people falsifying their income statements in order to get a bigger loan than they would usually qualify for.

 

[rowena]

No one thought this before very clever. Once you have been arrested, you can show them the Google results.

 

[calnana]

Is being a criminal a good idea? That's what you're asking basically. You're 20, there's so much money you can make in a perfectly legal way.

And yes, go consult with lawyers/ppl and tell them of your brilliant idea ... contender for most idiotic post of year. At least you had the sense to ask for advice before doing this stupid thing I guess.

 

[Dillon]

Is being a criminal a good idea? That's what you're asking basically. You're 20, there's so much money you can make in a perfectly legal way.

An extra 40k is an extra 40k. Of course going to jail over 40k is not worth it, but from the info I've gathered both online and offline most that could happen is I would get my local bank account frozen and funds taken away. Which would be zero anyway. After 10 years the debt would be written off according to the local law and practice.

And yes, go consult with lawyers/ppl and tell them of your brilliant idea

One good lawyer. Not lawyers, not random/multiple people. If you haven't noticed this is an anonymous account and I'm logging in via Tor.

 

[clemens]

At least you had the sense to ask for advice before doing this stupid thing I guess.

and that is exactly why we are here, to get some help before it is to late. If people follow some of the gold nuggets on this forum they will be doing fine.

I'm not sure if I understand OP correct, but, for instant a Cyprus company can make a loan to their director which can be paid back by the lender. However, the Cyprus company could be liquidated before the loan is paid, if the director is the only creditor in the company, no one will ever come after this setup.

Same can be done with almost any company which is owned by an foreigner.

 

[Dillon]

No one thought this before very clever. Once you have been arrested, you can show them the Google results.

I know that Google result don't mean s**t. But my point is that you don't go to jail if you default.

I'm not sure if I understand OP correct, but, for instant a Cyprus company can make a loan to their director which can be paid back by the lender. However, the Cyprus company could be liquidated before the loan is paid, if the director is the only creditor in the company, no one will ever come after this setup.

That's good to know for future endeavours but isn't really related to my question/plan.

So, I have a regular 9-5 job and I want to leverage that to get a cash loan from a local bank. I'll relocate to a different country and start a new life there without paying back the loan, or after paying just a few installments. My question is whether or not is this a good idea, if someone had already done this and what's the worst that could happen.

 

[Sols]

There is absolutely no way my passport would get revoked due to debt and looking at the law on travel documents this is not even a possibility. Furthermore I have searched through Google and couldn't find a single case of this happening to someone. And we have a lot of people owing millions in taxes.

That's what people thought before the IRS made a move towards refusing to renew US passports of people with tax debts. Not quite as drastic as revoking, though, so you'd have until your passport expires.

When it comes to being charged for fraud, I agree that this is a possibility. But what is the difference between not being able to pay back a loan due to getting sick or fired and not paying it back on purpose? For all they know I got mental issues from Covid and can't or won't find a new job.

It's all fine and dandy until you're prosecuted and have to convince a judge that you took out an unsecured loan, left the country, stopped paying the loan because of health/lost job, didn't return home (willingly), and now you're on trial for fraud. In this scenario, expect they'll dig into your daily financial activities abroad. So they'd see you have income, yet chose not to pay your debt.

It's not very likely, of course. It's your call if risking your entire future is worth it for a quick buck (of relatively modest size). If all you need is 50,000 EUR to start your business (if that's what you need the money for), find some investors.

The only bank fraud cases I could find on Google are related to people falsifying their income statements in order to get a bigger loan than they would usually qualify for.

There are thousands of court cases happening every day. Only a fraction of a fraction make it to the news.

After 10 years the debt would be written off according to the local law and practice.

In some jurisdictions and for some types of loans, the statue of limitation can be extended by the creditor. Make sure you check this with your lawyer.

 

[void]

this is a funny post after quite a while...

are you that kind of person who steals an unlocked bicycle? if not why are you even asking this bulls**t?
f**k the law, it's immoral anyways - but how would you feel if somebody steals your car or comes to get his "fee for protection"? why would you do that to someone else?

theft is immoral don't do that despite the law and potential penalties
tax evasion is a different story - it's only about considering the risk/reward ratio, I pay taxes because it's not worth the risk for me, for other it might work - but that's my view, others here would disagree

 

[12345]

are you that kind of person who steals an unlocked bicycle? if not why are you even asking this bulls**t?
f**k the law, it's immoral anyways - but how would you feel if somebody steals your car or comes to get his "fee for protection"? why would you do that to someone else?

theft is immoral don't do that despite the law and potential penalties

well he would steal from a bank worth billions not ordinary people

 

[void]

well he would steal from a bank worth billions not ordinary people

if it makes difference for you then you're a sick person

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Taking money from banks is good.
Study your plan well, according to the laws of your country, weigh all the pros and cons and take as much money as you can!

Note: I wrote “take”, not “steal”. Obviously the guy has all the intentions to repay his loan, he is just trying to understand what would happen in the unfortunate case that he is no longer be able to do so. He described an hypothetical scenario just to attract more attention.

 

[ImKing]

Study your plan well, according to the laws of your country, weigh all the pros and cons and take as much money as you can!

I would not suggest to do that! But study the laws is indeed a good beginning.

 

[JohnDones]

Take a loan at 3-4-5% whatever, buy crypto, use defi to get 10-20%, pay back the loan and use the extra income to make your life better.

There, you make money and you are not a criminal.

 

[Marzio]

use defi to get 10-20%

Would you dare to explain? Crypto-newbie here. I don’t even know what “defi” means and how to use it to get 10-20%

 

[void]

Take a loan at 3-4-5% whatever, buy crypto, use defi to get 10-20%, pay back the loan and use the extra income to make your life better.

There, you make money and you are not a criminal.

good advice but tell them it's far from risk-free strategy as well

 

[JohnDones]

Would you dare to explain? Crypto-newbie here. I don’t even know what “defi” means and how to use it to get 10-20%

Ahh OK fair enough I thought all of us sociopaths would know crypto well

If you don't know what defi is it means you should start by watching some YouTube videos. Otherwise jumping straight in means you will probably lose everything. But it's not too difficult imo.

Also if you are a US person you have some extra steps because of taxes (yey)

Even for retail users like I assume OP is and you are right now, if you are comfy using a centralized exchange and doing kyc use something like crypto.com or nexo, you can get 10%+ yield on stable coins.

That's probably what I recommend to begin with.

I believe both give you insurance so if they get "rekt" you can still get your money (maybe, like with banks)

Hope this helps

good advice but tell them it's far from risk-free strategy as well

I sleep waaay easier with my money in defi than any bank.

But I guess it was just a nudge for the OP to research.

How I got into the whole defi rabbit hole was that I searched how to get the best yield for my usd and some guy said the best yield is in usd stable coins not banks, that's it.

So the point is there are ways to take banks money, invest it wisely and pay it back and keep the rest.

 

[369]

there is a known case in poland who took 500k loan before retiring and writing everything to her husband.
They could litterly do nothing against her.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

there is a known case in poland who took 500k loan before retiring and writing everything to her husband.
They could litterly do nothing against her.

Please tell more, we all need to learn from this genius

I would not suggest to do that! But study the laws is indeed a good beginning.

There is nothing criminal with defaulting on a loan