Thailand Banking Change

[wellington]

Few things introduced over the past year.

1. Transactions over 50k THB require liveness scan.
2. ATM withdrawals over 50,000 THB (Bangkok Bank) **NEW** require authorisation to increase limit.
3. ATM deposits/withdrawals (300,000 THB in one go) introduced and removed.
4. Real drive for digitalisation and QR so the Gov can get access
5. 20 minute account freeze for fraud/money/mule laundering suspicion.
6. 2m THB international transfer reduced to 500k per day.
7. 250k automated reporting limit *US* is 300k for example.
8. Endless documents to open accounts under Elite Visa (Gov arrange).

I guess some are improvements others are annoyances, all to do with Chinese crime syndicates moving in.

I remember when i first walked into the bank well over ten years ago with a hoard of cash bought insurance and got a account opened in 10 minutes without any form of paperwork except my passport.

Lot of people have moved their banking to Laos due to the overreaching government surveillance i hear - same banks - just issued under Laos banking.

 

[blanco]

I find CitiBank, or now rebranded as UOB to be the absolute best and least troublesome. I have never had any issues transferring money out of the country, depositing, withdrawing etc.. Even when I wanted to transfer millions out of Thailand they just asked for my passport, no work permit, no source of funds (I haven't heard of any change to this from them). They fill in all the papers for you when you're at their branch.

The app doesn't require a photo for transfers over 50.000

I have a credit card through them, without the need to lock any amount and my account has been down to 0 sometimes and they never asked for a top-up or threatened to cancel my card.

But interesting to hear about Laos.. What are the benefits/drawbacks with an account in Laos?

 

[wellington]

I have a credit card through them, without the need to lock any amount and my account has been down to 0 sometimes and they never asked for a top-up or threatened to cancel my card.

Have a SCB Credit Card since 2012 (platinum thing) -> never had issues with that front, likewise 'actual credit card', also had a offer of a loan of 19,000,000 THB in 2012 for a mortgage at the time (stupid for not taking in hind-sight).

The app doesn't require a photo for transfers over 50.000

Bangkok, SCB do. Unsure about Kasikorn and Attaya as i just keep those accounts dormant/open.

But interesting to hear about Laos.. What are the benefits/drawbacks with an account in Laos?

Where Laos is concerned (same for Camboidia) the banks (Thai banks) opened up there, so basically it's like Thailand 10 yrs ago banking wise... Also i think one of those countries is not on CRS.

I've never been but heard chatter amongst the old timers here.

I find CitiBank, or now rebranded as UOB to be the absolute best and least troublesome. I have never had any issues transferring money out of the country, depositing, withdrawing etc.. Even when I wanted to transfer millions out of Thailand they just asked for my passport, no work permit, no source of funds (I haven't heard of any change to this from them). They fill in all the papers for you when you're at their branch.

Previously last couple of years could send 2m THB per day from app overseas (never used) but click of a few buttons, apparently the Chinese gangs used the service and made it harder for everyone else.

 

[blanco]

There has been a fair share of foreigners running boiler room scams here as well .. I don't know if they are still running that business or if they have completely turned their businesses into entertainment venues. Maybe more difficult for them to get the money out of the country nowadays.

I asked at the UOB office a few days ago their thought about the new tax rules from next year and they replied that any inward remittance they will simply just ask what the source of funds are and they said I could simply say "savings". However, they said that the Tax office may do random checks.

Wonder if setting up a bank account in Laos and just having a credit/debit card connected would be beneficial if Laos is not CRS compliant?

 

[jafo]

Transactions over 50k THB require liveness scan.

That's less than €1300, right?
If so, shocking! What do they expect one to do with only €1300?

 

[blanco]

That's less than €1300, right?
If so, shocking! What do they expect one to do with only €1300?

I guess this is more to prevent scams and frauds as it has been rampant in Thailand over the last few years.

 

[wellington]

foreigners running boiler room scams here as well .. I don't know if they are still running that business

Most of those are gone, used to be a host of Canadian/American's in Rawai about 2012-14 after that Brit guy was killed in Pattaya in his car they all seemed to disappear.

Off-late its mainly online casino's (thai , China etc focused) and money laundering for traffickers, which is currently being stamped out (tether for example routinely freezes wallets -daily - related to these assets at the behest of the US) and for the casinos, the plebs make all their money and still live in the country / region opposed to operating from overseas where it is legal (carib) and remaining overseas (where it is legal).

Appears to be the route for the old farts here... going by their discussions.

Wonder if setting up a bank account in Laos and just having a credit/debit card connected would be beneficial if Laos is not CRS compliant?

That's less than €1300, right?
If so, shocking! What do they expect one to do with only €1300?

I had this discussion just yesterday, it costs roughly 5,000 pounds/10,000 pounds to kit out a rental/newly mortgaged property at the bare medium....

 

[blanco]

Most of those are gone, used to be a host of Canadian/American's in Rawai about 2012-14 after that Brit guy was killed in Pattaya in his car they all seemed to disappear.

I know that 2 of the bosses out of the 2 main offices in Bangkok also "died" outside of Thailand a few years ago. I knew Mark H, but can't remember the other guy's name. Unsure if they actually died or if it was faked, they were still relatively young.

 

[wellington]

I know that 2 of the bosses out of the 2 main offices in Bangkok also "died" outside of Thailand a few years ago. I knew Mark H, but can't remember the other guy's name. Unsure if they actually died or if it was faked, they were still relatively young.

I actually knew someone *unbeknown to me at the time* that was involved in that space, they all (he's still about i think) seemed to move to cyprus area.

Ian was his first name (trying to think of his surname) but was involved in some boiler room scam with someone called pope (learned this after he left).

The Pope guy: Richard Pope faces jail in US over 'boiler room' scam

Boiler room scam three sentenced to jail in US

Three British men have been sentenced to a total of 43 years in prison in the United States for their part in one of the UK's biggest investment frauds.

www.bbc.com

Just reading the docs @jafo can perhaps enlighten me on something.

One of them was 'expelled' for immigration violations in South America, then handed over to the US Feds (non American).

Is there like a process then where immigration can't hand a perp over to the US unless a violation has occurred and instead of deporting to their home country they hand over to the US, if so then why not just hand over even if no domestic violation occurs?

I know you may be clued up on these procedures by your posts.

 

[blanco]

Ah I found it.. I was thinking of Glenn Bullard
Andrew Drummond used to write a lot about these guys

There is one consolation to this story and that is that boiler room men tend to murder each other, as in Kenway, and Ian Travis of Foreign Currency International, or come to mysterious ends as in Mark Hutcherson, shot-gun wounds in Plano, Texas, and Glen Bullard, over-indulgence of one sort or other in Pai, Northern Thailand.

BRIT BOILER ROOM MAN BLOWS – REPORT – Andrew Drummond

 

[churumbelo]

I find CitiBank, or now rebranded as UOB to be the absolute best and least troublesome. I have never had any issues transferring money out of the country, depositing, withdrawing etc.. Even when I wanted to transfer millions out of Thailand they just asked for my passport, no work permit, no source of funds (I haven't heard of any change to this from them). They fill in all the papers for you when you're at their branch.

The app doesn't require a photo for transfers over 50.000

I have a credit card through them, without the need to lock any amount and my account has been down to 0 sometimes and they never asked for a top-up or threatened to cancel my card.

But interesting to hear about Laos.. What are the benefits/drawbacks with an account in Laos?

I did not know the open personal accounts, I thought it was only business accounts. I might try to open an account with them. I have Bangkok Bank and I was thinking about opeming one with Kasikorn.

 

[wellington]

Ah I found it.. I was thinking of Glenn Bullard
Andrew Drummond used to write a lot about these guys



BRIT BOILER ROOM MAN BLOWS – REPORT – Andrew Drummond

What ever happened to him, was always a interesting read.

oh i see blocked in thailand.

 

[blanco]

I did not know the open personal accounts, I thought it was only business accounts. I might try to open an account with them. I have Bangkok Bank and I was thinking about opeming one with Kasikorn.

They have had personal accounts available for at least a decade. However, UOB has bought out Citibank's retail business here in Thailand now.
Last I heard they required 1m THB to open an account, but unsure if enforced or not now when they are UOB

What ever happened to him, was always a interesting read.

oh i see blocked in thailand.

I think it was Drew Noyes out of Pattaya who managed to get Drummond's webpage censored in Thailand due to Drew's mass defamation lawsuits against him. Due to various threats from boiler room gangs and others that he exposed, he decided to move back to the UK and now only occasionally writes about Thailand

 

[wellington]

Yeah noticed no new content since 2022.

Was enlightening, but to be fair i stopped socialising with people around 2014, and definitely closed doors in 2018, but from what i understand it's a much safer with less of this sort going on from Westerners than before if anything.

Biggest crime is around Russian laundering, and Chinese Laundering/Gangs/cybercrime these days.

I've found its generally better to just keep yourself away from people working in non-obvious industries here.

Circle of friends is really small, one a wholesaler for imported European food, 3 others retired, can't say i've ever had problems with that small circle, whereas previously was just headaches.

 

[blanco]

Yes, there seem to be a lot of Chinese gangs going on nowadays. I read a Reuters report the other day of a Chinese mafia/scammer connected to the Thai police (shocker.. I know). Link below

Crypto scam: Inside the billion-dollar ‘pig-butchering’ industry

I would say 99% of the people I knew in Bangkok from 15-20 years ago are gone.
There is a fair amount of decent people down in Hua Hin, but obviously a few bad apples as well.
Best, as you say, is to keep your circle small and just enjoy life.

 

[jafo]

Just reading the docs @jafo can perhaps enlighten me on something.

One of them was 'expelled' for immigration violations in South America, then handed over to the US Feds (non American).

Is there like a process then where immigration can't hand a perp over to the US unless a violation has occurred and instead of deporting to their home country they hand over to the US, if so then why not just hand over even if no domestic violation occurs?

I know you may be clued up on these procedures by your posts.

This is typical and the most used "strategy"! Extraditions are rarely used unless the target is a REALLY BIG FISH who has retained the services of a really really big LOCAL attorney with political connections & privileges and ALSO political aspirations (read future US puppet).

It happens in 99 out of 100 cases - I rather not disclose yet how I know. I'm planning to write about these things later. I just have to cut & paste so much out of my diaries that it feels like it is a task worthy of Sisyphus.

Let's take one case I am very familiar with and have all the court records as an example:

Andrew Stempler.

As you all know, travelers have NO rights at borders. Zero, despite what some "grifters" disguised as lawyers will promise in exchange for a hefty retainer: Digital Privacy at the (U.S.) EVERY Border: Protecting the Data On Your Devices

The gang members who outnumber us with their guns (paid by us) at the border will force us to hand over our devices, amicably or not-so-amicably!

Same in Panama, Korea, Germany etc etc. If we accept this, we gain the power to utilize it to protect ourselves from being ROBBED.

What Panamanian gangsters under the ruse of Panama's govt. did here to Andrew was to deny him entry to Panama AFTER letting him enter Panama from the transit area (it doesn't matter anyway...they do it in the transit area anyway). They kept Andrew in deferred inspections and told him they would let him board back to Canada. During the passage of time, there were 2 flights directly to Canada, but they deliberately kept Andrew in the dark. When there was a flight with a layover in Miami (with a supposed connecting flight to Canada), they "allowed" Andrew to board safely and out of his own volition, (at gunpoint ).

There is and was NO Canadian arrest warrant for Andrew as his "conduct" never were considered "prohibited acts" under Canadian "laws". See for yourself....

His lawyer did bring it up in court this chicanery of Panama and US authorities (I get tired of writing gang members), but it was just ignored by the prosecution's co-counsel, aka the federal judge, United States Magistrate Judge John O’Sullivan. Judge John O'Sullivan

So, yes, this happens so many times, it will SHOCK you! It's their preferred strategy! The US authorities have joked that this way they conserve the defendant's funds to be spent on defense attorneys in the US (whom they fraternize with on a weekly basis) and on commissary/others at 11 Best Prison and Law Enforcement Stocks To Buy Now

Caveat Emptor.

PS. Many police in third-world countries (and maybe others too?) receive stipends from US authorities, so keep this ALWAYS in mind. Source:

Brazilian Federal Police receives a monthly payment from the United States government. Carlos Costa, who headed the FBI in Brazil for four years, talks about how the US "bought the Federal Police" and how "ABIN prostitutes itself...". The value of the monthly allowance depends on the position the individual holds (delegado, etc.), but on average it is around 800 dollars per month per head.

 

[yngmind]

Have a SCB Credit Card since 2012 (platinum thing) -> never had issues with that front, likewise 'actual credit card', also had a offer of a loan of 19,000,000 THB in 2012 for a mortgage at the time (stupid for not taking in hind-sight).


Bangkok, SCB do. Unsure about Kasikorn and Attaya as i just keep those accounts dormant/open.


Where Laos is concerned (same for Camboidia) the banks (Thai banks) opened up there, so basically it's like Thailand 10 yrs ago banking wise... Also i think one of those countries is not on CRS.

I've never been but heard chatter amongst the old timers here.


Previously last couple of years could send 2m THB per day from app overseas (never used) but click of a few buttons, apparently the Chinese gangs used the service and made it harder for everyone else.

You've mentioned Chinese gangs many times on the forum.

Do you know what those guys exactly do?


I heard a lot about Chinese criminals, but what do they exactly do to make so much money?

 

[jafo]

You've mentioned Chinese gangs many times on the forum.

Do you know what those guys exactly do?


I heard a lot about Chinese criminals, but what do they exactly do to make so much money?

This has also been a big mystery to me.

1. What I know for sure is corrupt (excuses for the pleonasm) "public servants" in China who (try to) flee China with their ill-gotten gains. For example: China Executes Ex-Food and Drug Chief. "The few corrupt officials of the SFDA are the shame of the whole system and their scandals have revealed some very serious problems," agency spokeswoman Yan Jiangying said at a news conference held to highlight efforts to improve China's track record on food and drug safety. ...and...
2. Corrupt Chinese businessmen who flee (or try to flee) China with their ill-gotten gains to i.e. the West (Canada in this case). For example: Chinese fugitive Lai Changxing sentenced to life in prison. Billionaire who fought extradition from Canada for more than a decade has been jailed for life for smuggling and bribery
3. Or Chinese nationals overseas involved in online scams preying on mainland Chinese. For example: Myanmar extradites 31,000 people to China involved in online scams. Police agencies in the two countries have been working together against telecom scams since September. Some 63 alleged "financiers" and ringleaders top the list of people wanted in connection with Chinese nationals cheated out of lots of money. Fighting between Myanmar’s ruling junta and rebel forces is fuelling the problem.

etc. etc.

I also wonder about these Chinese gangs (triad?) and I think @wellington is alluding to #3 probably. They probably thought they would get safe haven overseas, especially in the West, but they were sorely mistaken as Operation Fox Hunt is going full steam.
'Fox Hunt' operation extradites suspect from Morocco to China. The "Fox Hunt" operation working group of the Ministry of Public Security extradited an economic crime suspect surnamed Luo from Morocco to China on Saturday, marking the first successful case since the extradition treaty between China and Morocco took effect in 2021, the Ministry of Public Security said.

 

[wellington]

You've mentioned Chinese gangs many times on the forum.

Do you know what those guys exactly do?


I heard a lot about Chinese criminals, but what do they exactly do to make so much money?

There’s numerous industries

1) they utilize “mass tourism” by paying for tourism for Chinese who carry each the legal limit in cash on the plane at the other end they hand over the cash and go and enjoy their holidays

The cash is then deposited - in one known case in a house adjacent to a friend of mine (hence being made aware because he is not happy) - the cleaner a friend of his wife - informed him there is a room full to the roof with cash.

It’s then slowly invested into the market or slowly converted to other things and invested elsewhere in the world.

Or used to help Chinese get their wealth out - like a Hawalah thing

That’s capital control movement around Chinese restrictions

——

Another set of enterprise is online casinos, trafficking and drugs which are all interconnected.

You've mentioned Chinese gangs many times on the forum.

Do you know what those guys exactly do?


I heard a lot about Chinese criminals, but what do they exactly do to make so much money?

There’s numerous industries

1) they utilize “mass tourism” by paying for tourism for Chinese who carry each the legal limit in cash on the plane at the other end they hand over the cash and go and enjoy their holidays

The cash is then deposited - in one known case in a house adjacent to a friend of mine (hence being made aware because he is not happy) - the cleaner a friend of his wife - informed him there is a room full to the roof with cash.

It’s then slowly invested into the market or slowly converted to other things and invested elsewhere in the world.

Or used to help Chinese get their wealth out - like a Hawalah thing

That’s capital control movement around Chinese restrictions

——

Another set of enterprise is online casinos, trafficking and drugs which are all interconnected.

I heard a lot about Chinese criminals, but what do they exactly do to make so much money?

On this one specifically

They do online casinos which is wrapped around porn.

It's a big hit...but they make all this wealth and then reinvest it into the same countries OR don't even set up proper companies so all of a sudden have a 70m$ home on the beach that has no paper-trail (last week etc) : https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news...-phuket-penthouses-linked-to-online-gambling/

As you all know, travelers have NO rights at borders. Zero, despite what some "grifters" disguised as lawyers will promise in exchange for a hefty retainer: Digital Privacy at the (U.S.) EVERY Border: Protecting the Data On Your Devices

Now it all makes sense.

Because these always happen between the customs and boarding the plane where the person is awaiting the plane, i.e after they've gone through 'immigration' and enter i guess 'no-mans-land'.

Happened last week, but seeing this ever frequently occur.

Russian woman arrested at Phuket airport on fraud charges

PHUKET: A 34-year-old Russian woman has been arrested on cyber crime charges while trying to leave the country via Phuket International Airport.

www.thephuketnews.com

or when they've overstayed on a visa you can't technically overstay on but are required to obtain a new stamp annually (Elite)

Russian, Indian nationals detained in Phuket villa raid

PHUKET - A Russian and two Indian nationals were arrested and charged for overstaying their visas during a police raid on a villa in Bang Thao beach area of Thalang district on Thursday.

www.bangkokpost.com

@jafo What is the real legal status of an airport transit area?

-> ref what is covered in:
https://www.thephuketnews.com/russian-woman-arrested-at-phuket-airport-on-fraud-charges-90438.php
-> That's not the first, there have been numerous, a sharp incline.

 

[cryptofriendly]

There has been a fair share of foreigners running boiler room scams here as well .. I don't know if they are still running that business or if they have completely turned their businesses into entertainment venues. Maybe more difficult for them to get the money out of the country nowadays.

I asked at the UOB office a few days ago their thought about the new tax rules from next year and they replied that any inward remittance they will simply just ask what the source of funds are and they said I could simply say "savings". However, they said that the Tax office may do random checks.

Wonder if setting up a bank account in Laos and just having a credit/debit card connected would be beneficial if Laos is not CRS compliant?

Both, Cambodia and Laos are non CRS. Opening an account in Cambodia and Laos was very easy before, now it's still not a problem, but requires a long term visa and documents.
I'd be careful with Laos though,the country is extremely indebted right now, with a roaring inflation and foreign exchange restrictions / fixed exchange rate and restrictions on maximum that can be converted from Lao Kip to USD. I don't know if there are any restrictions regarding bank transfers/swift right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some already or are going to be introduced in the near future.