Thailand is no longer an option: What else?

[banafinfodafuggiano]

Thailand will start taxing the s**t out of everyone (on paper) from 2024.
Malasya is doable but rather expensive to immigrate to, and the digital nomad visa is worthless and not valid as a proper residency visa to show back home.

What other option do we have in SE Asia that is relatively affordable (less than $30K USD) to obtain a long term visa that also can have potential Tax benefits?

 

[wellington]

Bounce around...

They will roll it back because their economy will nose dive.

If you take notice they say 20m people come in, they count all people non Thai coming into the country.

Well if you factor in there's something like 1.5m expats in Thailand of which 800,000 of them do border bounces, that's 3.2m of their tourists there alone.

Phuket is the gold mine for Thailand, the vast majority of which is underlined by some 500,000 expats living on the island.

Think if you will all the international schools, all the furniture providers etc, in essence the funds that provide skilled labour positions.

With these expats having to leave (they may not at first) then the arse falls out

 

[banafinfodafuggiano]

Bounce around...

They will roll it back because their economy will nose dive.

If you take notice they say 20m people come in, they count all people non Thai coming into the country.

Well if you factor in there's something like 1.5m expats in Thailand of which 800,000 of them do border bounces, that's 3.2m of their tourists there alone.

Phuket is the gold mine for Thailand, the vast majority of which is underlined by some 500,000 expats living on the island.

Think if you will all the international schools, all the furniture providers etc, in essence the funds that provide skilled labour positions.

With these expats having to leave (they may not at first) then the arse falls out

Their economy is 90% based on tourists that go there for 1-2 weeks and retired 50-70 years old men from Germany,
they won't roll back anything at all. Remember that the world is heading towards becoming a Digital High Tech Communist stamp place.

only the rich digital nomads and online entrepreneurs will leave, which is probably just in the thousands...

 

[JackAlabama]

Their economy is 90% based on tourists that go there for 1-2 weeks and retired 50-70 years old men from Germany,
they won't roll back anything at all. Remember that the world is heading towards becoming a Digital High Tech Communist stamp place.

only the rich digital nomads and online entrepreneurs will leave, which is probably just in the thousands...

Why are you so sure about that?
Thats not true about the economy, why would you have such elaborate infra for a few old farts scraping by on very meager pensions from Germany? There are also many other retriees not only Germans.

There is serious cash floating around there, otherwise it would not look like that, it would look more like Cambo or Laos.
You can have a look at these, together with Philippines or Vietnam. All have working options for long stay.

Stuff like that changing is the norm, as has just happened to the tax aimed at the stock market.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2654945/planned-financial-transaction-tax-axed

 

[wellington]

Average expat household lives of 3-4,000 a month in Thailand...

Their economy is 90% based on tourists that go there for 1-2 weeks and retired 50-70 years old men from Germany,
they won't roll back anything at all. Remember that the world is heading towards becoming a Digital High Tech Communist stamp place.

only the rich digital nomads and online entrepreneurs will leave, which is probably just in the thousands...

Avg 1.5m of which 800k border bounce x 4 which are accounted in the 20m tourists per year, expats (yes high turn over) + tourists that stay longer than 180 days (3%) + avg spending 120,000 THB x 12 months = x

That's the amount of money they are looking at loosing a chunk off.

UK Tax Treaty with Thailand for example ONLY covers State based pension (25ish k THB).

Avg villa rental in Phuket now is 30-40k.

UK doesn't charge tax for non-residents, so Thailand will charge tax for their private pensions coming in.

---

Have to look deeper than the claims.

Then go into other things, medical, insurance for my kids is 100,000 THB per year, schooling (babies) is 30,000 THB per two months, and Swimming School is 16,000 THB per two months, these rise to 300,000 THB per term, and 60,000 THB per term.

There's entire industries created around education.

There's entire industries created around expats.

There's entire industries created around health care.

These services bring in huge amounts of revenues.

As a tourist you have no use for these services except perhaps healthcare (trip to A&E).

Then look at the marine industry, the reason the services side of that has exploded in demand is due to the expat ownership, instead of Langkawi (where Phuket is concerned).

Would you honestly pay 40k $ + 35% to have your mast sorted, rigging, etc done ? or would you send it to langkawi and have the people setup shop there (tax free imports).

That industry alone employs about 10,000 THAIS directly and indirectly and over 200 companies in Phuket alone.

---

Real Estate, property rental prices have doubled in my area, purchase prices have trippled.

That's all tax at the rental side, and the transfer side.

All those funds (tax receipts would be gone).

 

[churumbelo]

Average expat household lives of 3-4,000 a month in Thailand...

Avg 1.5m of which 800k border bounce x 4 which are accounted in the 20m tourists per year, expats (yes high turn over) + tourists that stay longer than 180 days (3%) + avg spending 120,000 THB x 12 months = x

That's the amount of money they are looking at loosing a chunk off.

UK Tax Treaty with Thailand for example ONLY covers State based pension (25ish k THB).

Avg villa rental in Phuket now is 30-40k.

UK doesn't charge tax for non-residents, so Thailand will charge tax for their private pensions coming in.

---

Have to look deeper than the claims.

Then go into other things, medical, insurance for my kids is 100,000 THB per year, schooling (babies) is 30,000 THB per two months, and Swimming School is 16,000 THB per two months, these rise to 300,000 THB per term, and 60,000 THB per term.

There's entire industries created around education.

There's entire industries created around expats.

There's entire industries created around health care.

These services bring in huge amounts of revenues.

As a tourist you have no use for these services except perhaps healthcare (trip to A&E).

Then look at the marine industry, the reason the services side of that has exploded in demand is due to the expat ownership, instead of Langkawi (where Phuket is concerned).

Would you honestly pay 40k $ + 35% to have your mast sorted, rigging, etc done ? or would you send it to langkawi and have the people setup shop there (tax free imports).

That industry alone employs about 10,000 THAIS directly and indirectly and over 200 companies in Phuket alone.

---

Real Estate, property rental prices have doubled in my area, purchase prices have trippled.

That's all tax at the rental side, and the transfer side.

All those funds (tax receipts would be gone).

How about the Elite (Privilege) Visa program. They have commited to kill it... Who is going to pay the overpriced packages when, besides that, they want to tax them?

Unfortunately I do not think this time they will change their mind. I hope I am wrong. The fucking WEF, CRS, and so on. Thailand is following that path. The tax reform, then the inheritance tax they are talking about, now a new financial transaction tax,... They keep doing this and we will have the Socialist Republic of Thailand.

 

[banafinfodafuggiano]

Long term Visa options for Philippines or Vietnam?

How about the Elite (Privilege) Visa program. They have commited to kill it... Who is going to pay the overpriced packages when, besides that, they want to tax them?

Unfortunately I do not think this time they will change their mind. I hope I am wrong. The f*****g WEF, CRS, and so on. Thailand is following that path. The tax reform, then the inheritance tax they are talking about, now a new financial transaction tax,... They keep doing this and we will have the Socialist Republic of Thailand.

Exactly, they aren't going to change mind every 6 months.

at this point it's better to invest some money in Vietnam, at least there is growth potential and lower prices over there.

 

[wellington]

Thailand is now aligned to US interests, so WEF aspects will be included.

Vietnam likewise, Philippines, etc at some point things will be introduced to either 'protect you' or 'target the dirty rich' because their policies are failing and they are bankrupting the nation.

Thailand routinely has coups, this guy doesn't stand a chance when he starts hollowing out the middle class.

He's buying the votes of the lower-non-official-income, but the lower-non-official-income don't pay taxes (like 3-4% do) and predominantly work entirely in the grey / unrecorded economy.

The wealthy will finance the middle class (food, drinks, etc for protesting) and the Army come back in.

--- Otherwise Cambodia, Laos... 10 yrs ago Thailand didn't have much it exploded over the past ten years, 20 yrs ago even less.

Doesn't take much for Cambodia or Laos if people move there to see massive inflows of funds, and with China doing infrastructure areas within the countries can be rebuilt quickly.

As for its just been introduced and won't be rolled back, its already had one element rolled back.

 

[JackAlabama]

Long term Visa options for Philippines or Vietnam?

Exactly, they aren't going to change mind every 6 months.

But exactly this is what they are doing.
You can easily figure this out from behind your screen.

at this point it's better to invest some money in Vietnam, at least there is growth potential and lower prices over there.

Its basically the same thing there. You cannot just "invest" in these markets. It needs an holistic approach and local insights to up chances.

 

[A2934]

As for its just been introduced and won't be rolled back, its already had one element rolled back.

What is the "element" of the proposed remittance tax changes that has already been rolled back, please? Or you are referring to the previous financial transaction tax?

 

[wellington]

What is the "element" of the proposed remittance tax changes that has already been rolled back, please? Or you are referring to the previous financial transaction tax?

Referred to the tax on stock market trades.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2654945/planned-financial-transaction-tax-axed

 

[tickertrader]

Referred to the tax on stock market trades.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2654945/planned-financial-transaction-tax-axed

To me, putting money in Thailand other than the expense would add risk but less return. There are better markets(higher rr) to invest

 

[wellington]

S&P500 since 2013 has been flat.
Gold has been down -4% per year.
Real Estate (US) is down -2.5% per year.

Nasdaq is up avg +6% per year
Crypto is up more but has volatility.

Diversified approach is investing in markets in the emerging economies where growth % wise is higher, and the currency isn't being debased as much as western currencies.

Thailand like a number of markets offer that.

If you are counting growth in nominal terms in Western Markets then you are seeing wealth melt away... you have a diversified portfolio based on currency debasement offsetting at its core.

 

[churumbelo]

S&P500 since 2013 has been flat.
Gold has been down -4% per year.
Real Estate (US) is down -2.5% per year.

Nasdaq is up avg +6% per year
Crypto is up more but has volatility.

Diversified approach is investing in markets in the emerging economies where growth % wise is higher, and the currency isn't being debased as much as western currencies.

Thailand like a number of markets offer that.

If you are counting growth in nominal terms in Western Markets then you are seeing wealth melt away... you have a diversified portfolio based on currency debasement offsetting at its core.

The S&P500 flat? Since 2013 the average annual return has been around 12%.

 

[wellington]

The S&P500 flat? Since 2013 the average annual return has been around 12%.

I'm glad we don't have you involved in our T-Management lol.

That's nominal, real-value is flat (spending power).

Suggest you do the math.

 

[churumbelo]

I'm glad we don't have you involved in our T-Management lol.

That's nominal, real-value is flat (spending power).

Suggest you do the math.

Inflation adjusted is 9.87%

 

[wellington]

Again i reiterate, you should go away, figure out what you are missing and do the math.

You are again referencing nominal.

 

[churumbelo]

Please, enlighten me. What am I missing? I'm not referencing nominal but CPI adjusted. Already deflated.

 

[void]

Inflation adjusted is 9.87%

inflation is a vector
inflation is strictly individual
"official" inflation is manipulated fake number based on calculation that is frequently changing to serve the political purpose and at the same the highest possible number they dare to publish

 

[wellington]

Please, enlighten me. What am I missing? I'm not referencing nominal but CPI adjusted. Already deflated.

The nominal growth you refer to is based purely on CB Balance sheets and refinance cycles.

It's all a mirage.

The only things that outperform it is technology as that offsets the productivity collapse.

As for the CPI it's not even worth discussing the calculation is purely political based on the whims of the populistic politics of the day, what matters is math and thats explicit.

Here, have a look at the following charts, work out where your idea of growth is flawed.

In JPG format