Who is the best? GuruPay or Verifo? any suggestions!!

[Blackcrypto]

Hello everyone.

- Currently, I am in contact with these two EMI's: Verifo and GuruPay for opening a business account (my company business: buying and selling crypto vs FIAT).

If I was accepted into these two EMI's. Who is better in general? Bank transfers speed, not strict, fast support, ... etc.

What is recommended for dealing with cryptocurrency?

Reagrds,

 

[uplana]

Nice did not know about them, will be following/watching your thread.

 

[Forester]

Verifo and GuruPay

Both are one of many Lithuanian EMI's. Looking similar to another ones, but that is all that I can say. Maybe someone with knowledge of this environment (Mr. Gediminas?) can go into some details...

 

[Fred]

Verifo and IBSettle are serious EMI's for Crypto related transactions.

However as soon as you are dealing with SWIFT especially Verifo with 1.7% outgoing transactions is quite expensive.

Verifo does the initial verification straight forward but as soon as serious money coming in they withold it and additional questions are coming up.

All in all definitely one of the better LT EMI's.

 

[Sols]

If the choice is between these two, Verifo is probably the better choice. I frequently see regulated and higher risk businesses happily operate accounts with them and process large sums through them without any problem. Support is generally fast. Compliance can be a bit of a pain, but as long as you have your documents in order it doesn't take more than a day or two to get transactions through.

But in this day and age, you can't have too many accounts. I'd take both and give GuruPay enough to make them happy, but keep the majority with Verifo.

 

[ForexFriend]

Does anyone have experience with Verifo, in combination with a Seychelles company? (core business: forex trading)

 

[RobertNozick]

Verifo onboarding KYC is a pain the a*s

 

[JohnLocke]

Verifo onboarding KYC is a pain the a*s

For what country you applied ? and what did they require?

 

[RobertNozick]

For what country you applied ? and what did they require?

I applied for a business account for my US LLC as an UAE resident (EAA citizenship). I mentioned to them that I have a past in crypto trading (I need to say this for SoF purposes), even though I have no plans to use the account for that.

Here's all they ask me to provide:

1. Notarized/apostille certified (within last 6 months) company‘s registration certificate (certificate of incumbency, where applicable) where following data should be seen – name, legal form, legal entity code, company incorporation date, registration certificate issuance date).
2. Notarized/apostille certified register of directors and shareholders and share certificate (within the last 6 months).
3. If notarized/apostille certified documents were received from notary by email, please provide the email in eml. format, so we would be able to see the sender’s email and original attached document.
4. Company Bank Account Statements from another financial institution (for a period of at least the last 3 months) if the company has (or has had in the past) a bank account(s) in another financial institution(s). If the company does not have an account in another financial institution, please indicate it.
5. Provide the proof of registered crypto activities with the FinCEN.
6. Proof of company’s operating address, if different from registration address (issued within 3 months of the current date);
7. Director/Authorized Signatory/Shareholder/UBO proof of address (utility bills, etc., issued within three months of current date)
8. Explanation on Source of Wealth of the UBO(s) from which the company was incorporated, primary expenses paid from. Please provide supporting documentation which may include:
a. Resolutions for dividend payments from other companies.
b. Loan agreements.
c. Bank statements (for the last 6 months before company incorporation date).
d. Sale/purchase agreements.
e. Investment portfolio details.
f. Other applicable documents.
9. Please provide Mr. XXXXX's proof of experience in the crypto trading field.
10. Please provide wallet numbers and the ownership screenshots of all the company's crypto accounts.
11. Indicate all the persons who should have access to the account of the company (full name, position in the company, telephone number and email address).
12. Comprehensively explain the business model:
a. What kind of products/services the company provides (elaborate more).
b. What is the client type: private/corporate.
c. What channels are used for the clients acquisition.
d. Services/products pricing list/ exchange percentage, etc..
e. Indicate what age group is targeted (if individuals).
13. Please comprehensively explain how the account will be used.
a) will you require an account for: clients funds handling (C2B/B2C account), business expenses and actual profits collection (B2B account) or both account types will be required?
b) provide a flow of expected funds chart or detailed description indicating a clear flow of anticipated funds movement through Verifo account.
14. Please provide a couple of agreements with business partners that would support the stated business model.

 

[koohl]

s**t, just move on, you will never make it with them.

 

[Burak]

I applied for a business account for my US LLC as an UAE resident (EAA citizenship). I mentioned to them that I have a past in crypto trading (I need to say this for SoF purposes), even though I have no plans to use the account for that.

Here's all they ask me to provide:

1. Notarized/apostille certified (within last 6 months) company‘s registration certificate (certificate of incumbency, where applicable) where following data should be seen – name, legal form, legal entity code, company incorporation date, registration certificate issuance date).
2. Notarized/apostille certified register of directors and shareholders and share certificate (within the last 6 months).
3. If notarized/apostille certified documents were received from notary by email, please provide the email in eml. format, so we would be able to see the sender’s email and original attached document.
4. Company Bank Account Statements from another financial institution (for a period of at least the last 3 months) if the company has (or has had in the past) a bank account(s) in another financial institution(s). If the company does not have an account in another financial institution, please indicate it.
5. Provide the proof of registered crypto activities with the FinCEN.
6. Proof of company’s operating address, if different from registration address (issued within 3 months of the current date);
7. Director/Authorized Signatory/Shareholder/UBO proof of address (utility bills, etc., issued within three months of current date)
8. Explanation on Source of Wealth of the UBO(s) from which the company was incorporated, primary expenses paid from. Please provide supporting documentation which may include:
a. Resolutions for dividend payments from other companies.
b. Loan agreements.
c. Bank statements (for the last 6 months before company incorporation date).
d. Sale/purchase agreements.
e. Investment portfolio details.
f. Other applicable documents.
9. Please provide Mr. XXXXX's proof of experience in the crypto trading field.
10. Please provide wallet numbers and the ownership screenshots of all the company's crypto accounts.
11. Indicate all the persons who should have access to the account of the company (full name, position in the company, telephone number and email address).
12. Comprehensively explain the business model:
a. What kind of products/services the company provides (elaborate more).
b. What is the client type: private/corporate.
c. What channels are used for the clients acquisition.
d. Services/products pricing list/ exchange percentage, etc..
e. Indicate what age group is targeted (if individuals).
13. Please comprehensively explain how the account will be used.
a) will you require an account for: clients funds handling (C2B/B2C account), business expenses and actual profits collection (B2B account) or both account types will be required?
b) provide a flow of expected funds chart or detailed description indicating a clear flow of anticipated funds movement through Verifo account.
14. Please provide a couple of agreements with business partners that would support the stated business model.

Proof of experience? Wow, heard for first time.

 

[Sols]

Let's break it down for fun.

1. Notarized/apostille certified (within last 6 months) company‘s registration certificate (certificate of incumbency, where applicable) where following data should be seen – name, legal form, legal entity code, company incorporation date, registration certificate issuance date).
2. Notarized/apostille certified register of directors and shareholders and share certificate (within the last 6 months).

Pretty normal stuff.

3. If notarized/apostille certified documents were received from notary by email, please provide the email in eml. format, so we would be able to see the sender’s email and original attached document.

They have probably run into problem with spoofed emails. This shows you how competent Verifo is, compared to the majority of EMIs that end up accepting false/fraudulent documents. They're not accusing you of anything. Just checking things they've probably learned should be checked.

4. Company Bank Account Statements from another financial institution (for a period of at least the last 3 months) if the company has (or has had in the past) a bank account(s) in another financial institution(s). If the company does not have an account in another financial institution, please indicate it.

Normal. They even give you instructions for what to do if you don't have the document.

5. Provide the proof of registered crypto activities with the FinCEN.

This tells us you're a US based and/or US facing VASP. So it's a high risk application.

6. Proof of company’s operating address, if different from registration address (issued within 3 months of the current date);
7. Director/Authorized Signatory/Shareholder/UBO proof of address (utility bills, etc., issued within three months of current date)

Normal.

8. Explanation on Source of Wealth of the UBO(s) from which the company was incorporated, primary expenses paid from. Please provide supporting documentation which may include:
a. Resolutions for dividend payments from other companies.
b. Loan agreements.
c. Bank statements (for the last 6 months before company incorporation date).
d. Sale/purchase agreements.
e. Investment portfolio details.
f. Other applicable documents.

Normal for this kind of application.

9. Please provide Mr. XXXXX's proof of experience in the crypto trading field.

Normal for this kind of application. Someone who's starting a VASP should have no problem proving their industry experience. A simple CV might suffice.

10. Please provide wallet numbers and the ownership screenshots of all the company's crypto accounts.
11. Indicate all the persons who should have access to the account of the company (full name, position in the company, telephone number and email address).

Normal.

12. Comprehensively explain the business model:
a. What kind of products/services the company provides (elaborate more).
b. What is the client type: private/corporate.
c. What channels are used for the clients acquisition.
d. Services/products pricing list/ exchange percentage, etc..
e. Indicate what age group is targeted (if individuals).

Normal. VASPs encompass a wide range of different services.

13. Please comprehensively explain how the account will be used.
a) will you require an account for: clients funds handling (C2B/B2C account), business expenses and actual profits collection (B2B account) or both account types will be required?
b) provide a flow of expected funds chart or detailed description indicating a clear flow of anticipated funds movement through Verifo account.
14. Please provide a couple of agreements with business partners that would support the stated business model.

Normal stuff.

If this list is too much, it sounds like Verifo has done a good job filtering out a client that doesn't have their documents in order.

If anything, this just makes me more confident about Verifo. What we're seeing here is a competent, targeted, reasonable approach to a high risk application.

 

[RobertNozick]

@Sols

You're missing the point. I presented myself as a non-resident owner of a US LLC with some experience in crypto, and they immediately assumed I want to run a VASP in the United States.

At this point I'm pretty sure they'll also assume I'm involved in money laundering when I try to send $10 to my mum.

 

[Sols]

@Sols

You're missing the point. I presented myself as a non-resident owner of a US LLC with some experience in crypto, and they immediately assumed I want to run a VASP in the United States.

I absolutely see where you're coming from and understand how it's frustrating. It probably seems like they are being dumb or unreasonable.

But if I can offer an alternative perspective — think of compliance officers at banks/EMIs the same as border control and police. They're not for chitchatting (when they're on duty). Anything you say can and will be used against you. Don't bring up unrelated activities. To them, you mentioning crypto is like a Chekhov's gun. You brought it up, so it must (might) be relevant.

And, in this case, your background in crypto is relevant to the SOF.

These banks and EMIs run into dozens people per day who have "experience in crypto" and trying to use something as vague as that to cash out crypto with illegitimate origin. It's just a question to weed out some applicants. If you can provide maybe a CV demonstrating you've worked in crypto, statements from crypto exchanges showing your trading activity, and other things like that, you're already putting their minds at ease about that particular aspect of the application.

 

[Forester]

I agree with @Sols on everything that he has said. Pretty to the point. And just to add: the fact that the list has 13 points does not mean that some of them cannot be marked as N/A in your answer – if properly explained.
I personally also think that guys at Verifo know what they are doing and do not have a “tunnel perspective”. As an example, I witnessed them onboarding a Cuban citizen and resident – after properly and reasonably explained.

 

[Clearsky Network]

I absolutely see where you're coming from and understand how it's frustrating. It probably seems like they are being dumb or unreasonable.

But if I can offer an alternative perspective — think of compliance officers at banks/EMIs the same as border control and police. They're not for chitchatting (when they're on duty). Anything you say can and will be used against you. Don't bring up unrelated activities. To them, you mentioning crypto is like a Chekhov's gun. You brought it up, so it must (might) be relevant.

And, in this case, your background in crypto is relevant to the SOF.

These banks and EMIs run into dozens people per day who have "experience in crypto" and trying to use something as vague as that to cash out crypto with illegitimate origin. It's just a question to weed out some applicants. If you can provide maybe a CV demonstrating you've worked in crypto, statements from crypto exchanges showing your trading activity, and other things like that, you're already putting their minds at ease about that particular aspect of the application.

Completely agree with you and of course compliance has to do their job, but requests still need to be reasonable.
Both verifo and gurupay requests are many times simply unreasonable and repetitive just like the majority of the Lithuanian EMIs.