Cashout Crypto Which country?

[bemapis]

hello,


I have a certain amount of Crypto since 2015-2019 on a cold storage wallet.

Unfortunately back then i did alot of in person trades where i took up to 15% fees but the issue is that i cant proove the source of funds regarding this.

I started to make also day trades with leverage where no KYC was asked on several exchange sites which all got regulated now.

Im afraid that those people whom bought crypto from me or whom i sold where connected to any bad stuff, as i never tumbled my crypto as i had nothing to hide.

The exchange sites deleted all accounts which didnt pass KYC from 2019+ automaticlly so my accounts arent even existing anymore.

could you assist me with any kind of tips like flat tax countries with special taxation where i just pay a fix sum but no quetsions asked or any kind of way to pay taxes by creating a company?

 

[Sols]

Depends on where you live, your nationality, and how much crypto we're talking about.

If you want the crypto in fiat, there will be some degree of questioning. That's just part and parcel of the fiat world. The fewer questions you can answer, the more it'll cost.

 

[jafo]

hello,


I have a certain amount of Crypto since 2015-2019 on a cold storage wallet.

Unfortunately back then i did alot of in person trades where i took up to 15% fees but the issue is that i cant proove the source of funds regarding this.

I started to make also day trades with leverage where no KYC was asked on several exchange sites which all got regulated now.

Im afraid that those people whom bought crypto from me or whom i sold where connected to any bad stuff, as i never tumbled my crypto as i had nothing to hide.

The exchange sites deleted all accounts which didnt pass KYC from 2019+ automaticlly so my accounts arent even existing anymore.

could you assist me with any kind of tips like flat tax countries with special taxation where i just pay a fix sum but no quetsions asked or any kind of way to pay taxes by creating a company?

Are you looking to exchange crypto for FIAT just to have it or do you aspire to purchase something sizeable and need FIAT to do it?

Remember that depending on where you live, the "authorities" can come and ask you where all this new wealth originated. Some countries have wealth taxes, so if you didn't pay wealth taxes (and maybe other forms of taxes too) from 2015 until now, it could get a bit "stormy"

Is it more than 7 digits?

 

[Don]

hello,


I have a certain amount of Crypto since 2015-2019 on a cold storage wallet.

Unfortunately back then i did alot of in person trades where i took up to 15% fees but the issue is that i cant proove the source of funds regarding this.

I started to make also day trades with leverage where no KYC was asked on several exchange sites which all got regulated now.

Im afraid that those people whom bought crypto from me or whom i sold where connected to any bad stuff, as i never tumbled my crypto as i had nothing to hide.

The exchange sites deleted all accounts which didnt pass KYC from 2019+ automaticlly so my accounts arent even existing anymore.

could you assist me with any kind of tips like flat tax countries with special taxation where i just pay a fix sum but no quetsions asked or any kind of way to pay taxes by creating a company?

Sometimes moving crypto assets to a company can make life easier.
First from tax perspective. Trading crypto on the corporate level can mean that the capital gains are not exposed to personal income tax, but taxed on a corporate level.
From legal and tax perspective Estonian company can be a great vehicle for this, since its easy to inject assets, profits are taxed on distribution only, and there are great banking options available.

Second reason is the Source of Funds. Notably, different kind of documents are expected from companies and individuals (see below)
It might be easier to acquire documents for a company.
Moreso depending on e.g., tax exposure or tax risk exposure it might be sensible to relocate temporarily for cashing out.

Generally acceptable SOF for Individuals:

1. Tax Returns
2. Letter from Bank or Accountant stating assets
3. Bank statement or equities statement
4. Paystubs showing previous two years income
5. An accountant’s letter stating a client’s real estate holdings and inheritance suffice for net worth
6. Proof of balance at crypto exchange(s): an account statement or proof of balances letter
7. Signed message on private crypto wallet: sign a message using your cryptocurrency address

Generally acceptable SOF for Businesses:

1. Audited Financials
2. Tax Returns
3. Bank or Brokerage Letter Stating Assets
4. Account statement from crypto exchange
5. Proof of balance at crypto exchange(s)
6. Signed message on crypto wallet https://support.bitfinex.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403897669529-How-to-generate-a-Signed-Message#:~:text=What is a Signed Message,private key of an address.

 

[bemapis]

yes i want to convert it into FIAT to be able to invest in real estates and also have a better quality of life.

the total amount is really high, like really really really.

However i have several cryptos which are ofc on different blockchains and not linked to each other.

So i could also just show certain wallets, which leads to easier justify the generation of the wealth?

in my country no wealth tax exist.

i have EU passport ( quite powerful one ) and live also in that country.

To inject the personal asset into a company do i need to proof also the source of funds? I dont like estonia or any company which is sticked to crypto at all, as the strict AML laws applies to them.

So i would prefer to have a solution which leads me to move to a specific country where they handle it uncomplicated.

Im willing to pay taxes, but i just dont want to out me and see how the tax authorities handles it and be in a bad spot.

If there is anyone here with references and maybe a company he can contact me for further assistance.

 

[Don]

yes i want to convert it into FIAT to be able to invest in real estates and also have a better quality of life.

the total amount is really high, like really really really.

However i have several cryptos which are ofc on different blockchains and not linked to each other.

So i could also just show certain wallets, which leads to easier justify the generation of the wealth?

in my country no wealth tax exist.

i have EU passport ( quite powerful one ) and live also in that country.

To inject the personal asset into a company do i need to proof also the source of funds? I dont like estonia or any company which is sticked to crypto at all, as the strict AML laws applies to them.

So i would prefer to have a solution which leads me to move to a specific country where they handle it uncomplicated.

Im willing to pay taxes, but i just dont want to out me and see how the tax authorities handles it and be in a bad spot.

If there is anyone here with references and maybe a company he can contact me for further assistance.

If you don't provide specific information about your personal situation like your country of residence you can expect very generic answer which probably will not help you much.

Same goes regarding your preferences. If you want to buy villa for dollars in Italy exchanging crypto to North Korean Won will not help you much. If you don't share this information how can we possibly know that?

If you inject crypto to your own company you or the director possibly has to do due diligence on yourself.

You are willing to pay taxes but were you also obligated to do so in the referred period and did you do it or you only now suddenly got appetite for paying tax?

Just trying to help here.

 

[jafo]

i would prefer to have a solution which leads me to move to a specific country where they handle it uncomplicated.

#Bingooooooooooooooooooo
OP is gaining huge amounts of wisdom as he writes. Smart man!

 

[Rome]

Sometimes moving crypto assets to a company can make life easier.
First from tax perspective. Trading crypto on the corporate level can mean that the capital gains are not exposed to personal income tax, but taxed on a corporate level.
From legal and tax perspective Estonian company can be a great vehicle for this, since its easy to inject assets, profits are taxed on distribution only, and there are great banking options available.

Second reason is the Source of Funds. Notably, different kind of documents are expected from companies and individuals (see below)
It might be easier to acquire documents for a company.
Moreso depending on e.g., tax exposure or tax risk exposure it might be sensible to relocate temporarily for cashing out.

Generally acceptable SOF for Individuals:

1. Tax Returns
2. Letter from Bank or Accountant stating assets
3. Bank statement or equities statement
4. Paystubs showing previous two years income
5. An accountant’s letter stating a client’s real estate holdings and inheritance suffice for net worth
6. Proof of balance at crypto exchange(s): an account statement or proof of balances letter
7. Signed message on private crypto wallet: sign a message using your cryptocurrency address

Generally acceptable SOF for Businesses:

1. Audited Financials
2. Tax Returns
3. Bank or Brokerage Letter Stating Assets
4. Account statement from crypto exchange
5. Proof of balance at crypto exchange(s)
6. Signed message on crypto wallet https://support.bitfinex.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403897669529-How-to-generate-a-Signed-Message#:~:text=What is a Signed Message,private key of an address.

Wouldn't they still ask you for documented SOF even if you show proof of balance and signed messages?

 

[Sols]

However i have several cryptos which are ofc on different blockchains and not linked to each other.

So i could also just show certain wallets, which leads to easier justify the generation of the wealth?

If there is nothing at all connecting the wallets, you could have different cash out flows for different wallets. This is more complex but reduces the risks.

To inject the personal asset into a company do i need to proof also the source of funds?

Not necessarily to inject the funds into the company, but the request for SOF will come up at a later stage when the company tries to open a bank account.

So i would prefer to have a solution which leads me to move to a specific country where they handle it uncomplicated.

The problem is you want fiat. Fiat is subject to all the usual ins and outs. Especially if you want the money in EUR, USD, or other major currency.

It's going to be complicated to work, if we're talking eight or nine figures. It might take multiple channels so that not everything goes through a single choke point.

Im willing to pay taxes, but i just dont want to out me and see how the tax authorities handles it and be in a bad spot.

If you stay put, you're at the very least looking at capital gains or income tax, depending on how crypto is treated where you live. If you're OK with that, you at least don't have to move.

If you want to lower your tax burden, you'll also need to move. For example Malta or Cyprus (easy for EU passport holders) and then gradually begin cashing out your crypto.

 

[Don]

Wouldn't they still ask you for documented SOF even if you show proof of balance and signed messages?

Most likely.
The first step is probably moving the crypto to a regulated exchange, and exchanges normally have lesser requirements.
It becomes more difficult when you make the actual exchange to FIAT.
If you make the exchange in tranches its easier. It also tends to be easier in smaller countries that have heir own currency.
Say you have 1M but SoF only for 100k.
Then you can cash out 10x 100k.

 

[DSoz]

Sometimes moving crypto assets to a company can make life easier.
First from tax perspective. Trading crypto on the corporate level can mean that the capital gains are not exposed to personal income tax, but taxed on a corporate level.
From legal and tax perspective Estonian company can be a great vehicle for this, since its easy to inject assets, profits are taxed on distribution only, and there are great banking options available.

Second reason is the Source of Funds. Notably, different kind of documents are expected from companies and individuals (see below)
It might be easier to acquire documents for a company.
Moreso depending on e.g., tax exposure or tax risk exposure it might be sensible to relocate temporarily for cashing out.

Generally acceptable SOF for Individuals:

1. Tax Returns
2. Letter from Bank or Accountant stating assets
3. Bank statement or equities statement
4. Paystubs showing previous two years income
5. An accountant’s letter stating a client’s real estate holdings and inheritance suffice for net worth
6. Proof of balance at crypto exchange(s): an account statement or proof of balances letter
7. Signed message on private crypto wallet: sign a message using your cryptocurrency address

Generally acceptable SOF for Businesses:

1. Audited Financials
2. Tax Returns
3. Bank or Brokerage Letter Stating Assets
4. Account statement from crypto exchange
5. Proof of balance at crypto exchange(s)
6. Signed message on crypto wallet https://support.bitfinex.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403897669529-How-to-generate-a-Signed-Message#:~:text=What is a Signed Message,private key of an address.

is it possible to have an anonymous setup in Estonia, such that personal details are not exposed in public records?

 

[wellington]

If using a corporation.

Just a point when doing annual accounting and giving a evaluation to the company = tech company = lines of code = 5m

- inside that 5m is x shitcoin on the balance book = lines of code.

 

[bemapis]

Moving to Dubai wont solve the issue?

Do they have any due dilligence when purchasing a real estate? After i get an offical residence permit i could cashout?

There is a country where i can invest in real estates by directly purchasing it with crypto. The KYC is very loose as a friend of mine already purchased a real estate successfully.

The disadvantage is, i have to hold the real estates for 5 years in order to sell them without any tax burden.

Also it would be tons of work in order to cashout my full amount in that way....

 

[Sols]

Moving to Dubai wont solve the issue?

Hard to say without knowing the full scope of the issue.

Do they have any due dilligence when purchasing a real estate? After i get an offical residence permit i could cashout?

You can buy a property entirely in crypto in Dubai and elsewhere with little to no KYC. But as soon as you go to cash the money in and enter the fiat system, you have to play by the fiat rules.

 

[Revoltec]

If you want to lower your tax burden, you'll also need to move. For example Malta or Cyprus (easy for EU passport holders) and then gradually begin cashing out your crypto.

Germany can also be an option as they do not tax crypto gains if they have been held for more than 12 months

 

[Rome]

Hard to say without knowing the full scope of the issue.


You can buy a property entirely in crypto in Dubai and elsewhere with little to no KYC. But as soon as you go to cash the money in and enter the fiat system, you have to play by the fiat rules.

How come the banks don't question where you had the money for buying the property? I'm not referring to only Dubai. I have seen it happen in the EU as well. Not sure about the US though

 

[wellington]

How come the banks don't question where you had the money for buying the property? I'm not referring to only Dubai. I have seen it happen in the EU as well. Not sure about the US though

In the UK, people have had their accounts frozen, and then questioned both by the banks, and HMRC on how they financed house purchases.
i.e if a person sold a house for 400k and bought a new one for 350k -> they literally have assets frozen and even forfeiture actions or / unexplained wealth orders carried out against them.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this occur in the EU (under new AML 6 laws) and US etc.

As it allows the state to obtain assets (Great Taking) without having to prove a crime has occured.

You should see the Facebook Groups... with people scratching their heads...

---

As for buying property -> you buy a company that holds a property as an asset (for example BVI company that owns a Thai property) then there's no change domestically... it's just a register change overseas -> this of-course has reporting under the new laws (UBO etc), but the transaction itself is private in (for example BVI) but also in say Thailand. (i am using Thailand as an example as i understand some of the structures).

Downside is most of these properties would be 2m+ So not for the avg person.

Example Bei Facebook anmelden (banks freezing assets).