Crypto SoF documents

[lili247]

Let's say I want to open an account in a crypto bank or private bank in CH/LI.

I bought BTC in 2016 for 350$, sold for 700$, bought again at 4000$, and then did a shitload of stuff which are harder to track, defi, multiple exchanges, lost money, lost crypto, gained crypto again, etc, etc.

BUT I have a purchase receipt for like 20 BTC in 2016.

Can I just show that receipt to Frick/Sygnum/Anima, and then deposit 10 BTC with them ?

Or sell the 10 BTC for fiat at Kraken, then transfer to a non-crypto private bank in CH/LI, and show them the purchase receipt and the sale receipt ?

Will that be enough ?

Or are they going to dig, ask if I really holded from 2016 until now, will want a full list of all my transactions from 2016 until now, etc ?

 

[daniels27]

Always worth a try. I think selling and showing purchase receipt and sales receipt is more likely the safer choice.

 

[rss]

Let's say I want to open an account in a crypto bank or private bank in CH/LI.

I bought BTC in 2016 for 350$, sold for 700$, bought again at 4000$, and then did a shitload of stuff which are harder to track, defi, multiple exchanges, lost money, lost crypto, gained crypto again, etc, etc.

BUT I have a purchase receipt for like 20 BTC in 2016.

Can I just show that receipt to Frick/Sygnum/Anima, and then deposit 10 BTC with them ?

Or sell the 10 BTC for fiat at Kraken, then transfer to a non-crypto private bank in CH/LI, and show them the purchase receipt and the sale receipt ?

Will that be enough ?

Or are they going to dig, ask if I really holded from 2016 until now, will want a full list of all my transactions from 2016 until now, etc ?

Spend a bit of money and get your transaction history documented so you can show a clean SoF document, these guys might be able to help you https://www.abilex.ch/source-of-funds

 

[daniels27]

Spend a bit of money and get your transaction history documented so you can show a clean SoF document, these guys might be able to help you https://www.abilex.ch/source-of-funds

I think the main problem is that is it not clean:

and then did a shitload of stuff which are harder to track, defi, multiple exchanges, lost money, lost crypto, gained crypto again, etc, etc.

In any case, he can use that proof of purchase and a proof of sale and probably deposit it into 3 to 4 banks and then merge later.

 

[lili247]

I mean that should be possible to track everything but a bit complicated as I used like 4 or 5 different exchanges, tier1 for BTC/ETH, smaller one for shitcoins.

Regarding the defi part, I did some stuff on the bnb chain in 2021, one thing actually worked, let's say I "invested" in a shitcoin that was really a pump and dump, and got lucky and did a x4 with a quite big amount, I guess everything can still be tracked and documented since it's a blockchain, not sure if banks will like it though.

So proof of purchase and proof of sale for BTC looks easier.

I mean, when you sell some real estate or some ETF, banks only ask for proof of sale, correct ? Maybe proof of purchase also. So I thought that would be the same for crypto, at least with some banks ...

Daniels, why use 3 or 4 different banks ?

 

[linusAG]

You can find a crypto/AML/Fintech lawyer to help you 'analyse' the SOF and they can sign an SOF to the bank.

 

[daniels27]

Daniels, why use 3 or 4 different banks ?

If you can get a proof for a third of your assets, you used that proof to deposit a third. You can then repeat the same with two more banks.

It will be much easier to get a proof for just a part of the assets, while it will cost you a lot to get the proof for all.

 

[lili247]

Ok, understood
Actually my buy order from 2016 is big enough to justify 100% of the assets.

I'm not limited to CH/LI for banking, I'll be ok with any other bank in the EU, or even maybe elsewhere. I'm a EU citizen and tax resident in Malta.

 

[daniels27]

Maybe Xapo would be an option.

What do you want to do with the bank? I mean offramp is just one thing. After that, what are your plans?

 

[lili247]

Buy some world ETF through them for long term holding. I'm ok to pay fees higher than something like IBKR as long as they accept the funds. Probably buy some real estate also. I don't need portfolio management.

I think I've read here that Andbank in Andorra may be more ok less ok with crypto as a source of funds also.

 

[daniels27]

Then just offramp it. You can then move the money anywhere you want. I would try small amounts first.

 

[lili247]

Offramp how ? With banks or EMIs ?

 

[daniels27]

Maybe even coinbase, kraken, etc.

 

[lili247]

You can't send money from Coinbase to a broker like IBKR or a notary for real estate buying directly, it has to go through an account in your own name. I don't have a bank account where I'm sure they won't cause any issue.

 

[daniels27]

You can't send money from Coinbase to a broker like IBKR or a notary for real estate buying directly, it has to go through an account in your own name. I don't have a bank account where I'm sure they won't cause any issue.

I know. That's why you best try small amounts and then have the documentation ready.

 

[hlepic211]

Usually they don't ask you for trade history. Just in and out transactions. The 1st fiat transfer and crypto purchase is the most important part.

 

[dulcimer]

Some of these banks have on chain analysis. You can try with them. You give them a list of addresses, origin buy info, origin source of funds and they might be able to work with that.

 

[daniels27]

Some of these banks have on chain analysis. You can try with them. You give them a list of addresses, origin buy info, origin source of funds and they might be able to work with that.

And then those banks will be able to certify what?

then did a shitload of stuff which are harder to track, defi, multiple exchanges, lost money, lost crypto, gained crypto again, etc, etc.

Exactly, he will get a certificate that his coins are dirty. And you will get a certificate for not reading the first post?

 

[Meta]

Let's say I want to open an account in a crypto bank or private bank in CH/LI.

I bought BTC in 2016 for 350$, sold for 700$, bought again at 4000$, and then did a shitload of stuff which are harder to track, defi, multiple exchanges, lost money, lost crypto, gained crypto again, etc, etc.

BUT I have a purchase receipt for like 20 BTC in 2016.

Can I just show that receipt to Frick/Sygnum/Anima, and then deposit 10 BTC with them ?

Or sell the 10 BTC for fiat at Kraken, then transfer to a non-crypto private bank in CH/LI, and show them the purchase receipt and the sale receipt ?

Will that be enough ?

Or are they going to dig, ask if I really holded from 2016 until now, will want a full list of all my transactions from 2016 until now, etc ?

Hi. I tried https://alt.co/ in similar situation. They help to document your crypto SoF, sell coins and send to a partner bank in Switzerland. It didn't work out. They were very easy-going in the beginning, "just give us what you have", but after I provided the documents regarding original acquisition they wanted to reconstruct the full transaction history (for many years). Some non-crypto banks could be fine with only original receipts if you cashout smaller amounts to them, but it is kind of unreliable. Good luck.

 

[Meta]

Usually they don't ask you for trade history. Just in and out transactions. The 1st fiat transfer and crypto purchase is the most important part.

Which banks were that?