Dubai residence - creating substance - subrenting apartment

[PhantomOf ThePits]

Hi,

my last Post got deleted and I wanted to ask again. I'm new to the forum and dont sell anything.

TLDR:
- I move my residence to Dubai next month.
- As I am a 'nomad' I wont stay more than one month in Dubai or any other locations.
- To create KYC substance (utility bill blabla), thanks for the advice of azb1, I'd
a) either rent something cheap
or
b) rent something which doesnt look like a shoebox and hence more substance and rent it out via AirBNB or so when I'm not there.


I have two questions please:
1) Do you have clients/friends who do it like that and can recommend service providers to work with?
2) Do you know of service providers who go to the letter box once in a while and scan/forward mail which arrives at the residence?

Basically what I am looking for is not to spend the least money, but to have a good trade-off between costs/hazzle.

I'd be happy about any advice and experiences.

Thank you

 

[mrb]

You won’t hold your UAE residence for long... basic requirement of this state says 180+ days on Emirati soil or you loose your residency.
How are you going to satisfy thar?

 

[CaptK]

AirBNB wont work you will have to rent a real apartment and have your tenancy registered with Dubai Land.
With that you can get utility bills and a PO Box.
I have clients who use this structure for over 3 years

 

[PhantomOf ThePits]

You won’t hold your UAE residence for long... basic requirement of this state says 180+ days on Emirati soil or you loose your residency.
How are you going to satisfy thar?

Hi mrb,
according to what i heard to not lose my Dubai residency I have to enter the UAE each '6months' for some days?

The 180days would just be needed if I'd need a tax cert (which for now I wont need)

correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Fred]

Hi mrb,
according to what i heard to not lose my Dubai residency I have to enter the UAE each '6months' for some days?

The 180days would just be needed if I'd need a tax cert (which for now I wont need)

correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes - that's right.

 

[mrb]

Hi mrb,
according to what i heard to not lose my Dubai residency I have to enter the UAE each '6months' for some days?

The 180days would just be needed if I'd need a tax cert (which for now I wont need)

correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re right.
Only tax residency keeps you immune to irs investigations.
Otherwise you’re at the mercy of an Emirati bank.

 

[PhantomOf ThePits]

You’re right.
Only tax residency keeps you immune to irs investigations.
Otherwise you’re at the mercy of an Emirati bank.

Hi mrb,
may I ask if you live in Dubai and speak from experience?

I know several Dubai residents who bank abroad and were never asked about their tax cert (for now).

It may also depend from which jurisdiction the people come from before they move to the UAE.
In that case they may be required to have a TRC from the UAE to prove their tax residency/substance to the other country they left.

 

[JackAlabama]

Hi mrb,
may I ask if you live in Dubai and speak from experience?

I know several Dubai residents who bank abroad and were never asked about their tax cert (for now).

It may also depend from which jurisdiction the people come from before they move to the UAE.
In that case they may be required to have a TRC from the UAE to prove their tax residency/substance to the other country they left.

Yes, that depends on the banks / countries you bank in.

I ditched all banks who want to do a yearly re kyc and request me to hand in the same bunch of forms over and over again together with my latest blood/stool sample, underpants and a video verification of me performing some acts in the bedroom.
Panama banks were especially bad in that regard, so I ditched that banana republic.

Life is much simpler that way.

 

[troubled soul]

my latest blood/stool sample, underpants and a video verification of me performing some acts in the bedroom.

This make my day

 

[esdee]

I'm not sure about Airbnb, but have you considered giving it to a property management company? They will remove most of the hassle involved with finding tenants and signing paper work etc.
Also, if you are in good terms with them, they would not mind collecting your mail and forwarding it to you from time to time. You could also incentivize on of their employees to do that for you if you are looking for that extra attention.

 

[PhantomOf ThePits]

I'm not sure about Airbnb, but have you considered giving it to a property management company? They will remove most of the hassle involved with finding tenants and signing paper work etc.
Also, if you are in good terms with them, they would not mind collecting your mail and forwarding it to you from time to time. You could also incentivize on of their employees to do that for you if you are looking for that extra attention.

Yes, that would be also very good.
I checked the last days several apartments and the 'shoeboxes' are around 5k.
'Nicer', small apartments with a good location like JBL,Marina (where one has cafes, gym, other things in walking distance) are to find around 10-15k furnished.

As I'm there for 1-2 months/year anyways and calculating 150 USD/night hotel, then I'd pay the same with shoebox+hotel.

Therefore, to find a good property management company would even be better and they take care about all incoming post and best case rent it out for some time to recover some of the yearly rent.

 

[CaptK]

Hi,

my last Post got deleted and I wanted to ask again. I'm new to the forum and dont sell anything.

TLDR:
- I move my residence to Dubai next month.
- As I am a 'nomad' I wont stay more than one month in Dubai or any other locations.
- To create KYC substance (utility bill blabla), thanks for the advice of azb1, I'd
a) either rent something cheap
or
b) rent something which doesnt look like a shoebox and hence more substance and rent it out via AirBNB or so when I'm not there.


I have two questions please:
1) Do you have clients/friends who do it like that and can recommend service providers to work with?
2) Do you know of service providers who go to the letter box once in a while and scan/forward mail which arrives at the residence?

Basically what I am looking for is not to spend the least money, but to have a good trade-off between costs/hazzle.

I'd be happy about any advice and experiences.

Thank you

Sub letting your property will give you problems because you are liable for everything. Plus your sublet will not be registered with the Land authorities and therefore gives you no protection if the landlord wants to take over your business.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

You cannot sublet your rented apartment without consent from the landlord. If the owner finds out, you're in a lot of trouble.
Also renting out apartments on AirBnB requires a tourism license (and a tourism tax, I mean tourism fee) to be paid to the government. Obviously only the owner can apply for that license.
If you buy an apartment using a mortgage, you might need consent from the bank to rent it out through AirBnB.

 

[nasariohernandez]

TLDR:
- I move my residence to Dubai next month.
- As I am a 'nomad' I wont stay more than one month in Dubai or any other locations.
- To create KYC substance (utility bill blabla), thanks for the advice of azb1, I'd

Hey @PlatformOf, I'm in a very similar situation. Just got my UAE ID done couple months ago. I've used a contract from a hotel-apartment that I rented for 1.5 moths successfully as KYC to open up an Emirates NBD account.

Also thinking about best way to create more substance for long term tax residence. The rules here are quite restrictive in regards of subletting. So unless you buy a property and rent it out as a landlord it's a bit tricky. I'm not that optimistic about the property market here by the looks of it to buy here.

 

[Fred]

You won’t hold your UAE residence for long... basic requirement of this state says 180+ days on Emirati soil or you loose your residency.
How are you going to satisfy thar?

Wrong - you are required to be every 180 days for at least 1 day to the UAE to keep your Residence Visa active.

Hi mrb,
may I ask if you live in Dubai and speak from experience?

I know several Dubai residents who bank abroad and were never asked about their tax cert (for now).

It may also depend from which jurisdiction the people come from before they move to the UAE.
In that case they may be required to have a TRC from the UAE to prove their tax residency/substance to the other country they left.

For EU citizens the Tax Residence Certificate is most likely only required if you move back from the UAE to your country of citizenship. Example: Slovakian Citizen lives for 5 years in the UAE and moves back to the EU not to Slovakia but to Austria - in this case Austria doesn't care about the wealth as there are no ties. Imagine the Slovakian Citizen moves with millions back to Slovakia - most likely he will face questions due to his strong ties to Slovakia (Citizenship) and in this case the Tax Residence Certificate makes sense so that even if you face stupid questions you can prove the past 5 years.

Also thinking about best way to create more substance for long term tax residence. The rules here are quite restrictive in regards of subletting. So unless you buy a property and rent it out as a landlord it's a bit tricky. I'm not that optimistic about the property market here by the looks of it to buy here.

Keep in mind that you only really create substance if you really live in your purchased property. And when you rent it out you should have the utilities under your name to use it as proof of address on a global point of view when it comes to financial institutions.

Hey @PlatformOf, I'm in a very similar situation. Just got my UAE ID done couple months ago. I've used a contract from a hotel-apartment that I rented for 1.5 moths successfully as KYC to open up an Emirates NBD account.

That's my point all the time. I guess it's a personal account - with a good banker on hand even this work isn't required as there are still enough possibilities for the banker to manage. Good bankers open the Personal Bank Account same day and give you Debit Card on the next day - at least for low risk passport holders.

 

[nasariohernandez]

if you face stupid questions you can prove the past 5 years

This. 100% the reason to have a certificate for every year. Burocratic systems don't make sense often times and the stupid question situation happens all to often for people withithout a "9 to 5, family, kids, mortgage" life

 

[Konstanz]

For EU citizens the Tax Residence Certificate is most likely only required if you move back from the UAE to your country of citizenship. Example: Slovakian Citizen lives for 5 years in the UAE and moves back to the EU not to Slovakia but to Austria - in this case Austria doesn't care about the wealth as there are no ties. Imagine the Slovakian Citizen moves with millions back to Slovakia - most likely he will face questions due to his strong ties to Slovakia (Citizenship) and in this case the Tax Residence Certificate makes sense so that even if you face stupid questions you can prove the past 5 years.

Not exactly like that. I am from EU country. Moved to other country. I had tax investigation by my local country. They have asked tax residence certificate. They did everything they can to make me somehow tax resident of my home country. They checked everything: credit card statements, flight tickets etc. Tax investigation actually took 2+ years.
In most cases yes, you don't need tax residence certificate until the moment you have tax investigation.

 

[Fred]

Not exactly like that. I am from EU country. Moved to other country. I had tax investigation by my local country. They have asked tax residence certificate. They did everything they can to make me somehow tax resident of my home country. They checked everything: credit card statements, flight tickets etc. Tax investigation actually took 2+ years.
In most cases yes, you don't need tax residence certificate until the moment you have tax investigation.

Sounds like Germany.

The tax investigation doesn't come out of the nowhere so you had still enough substance that it was worth for the tax authority to investigate you 2+ years. And beside of the substance some significant wealth / income the tax authorities were aware of as they always make a simple calculation if it's worth to go after somebody or not.

Most likely some property in your name or some local bank account in your name. Even if you don't use the bank account or live in the apartment it's most of the time enough for the authorities to try it at least.

However because of this we always tell the clients to close down everything including local bank accounts and stick to everything outside the EU when it comes to financial institutions. Or at least only work with EU EMI that verify you with the Emirates ID only like Paysera.

However Property and Kids are the most two important showstopper everybody should keep an eye on.

 

[zzzzzz]

That's my point all the time. I guess it's a personal account - with a good banker on hand even this work isn't required as there are still enough possibilities for the banker to manage. Good bankers open the Personal Bank Account same day and give you Debit Card on the next day - at least for low risk passport holders.

@Fred with EU passport and Emirates ID, do UAE banks want to see rent contract when you open personal bank account? Or is this requirement only when you open business bank account?

 

[Fred]

@Fred with EU passport and Emirates ID, do UAE banks want to see rent contract when you open personal bank account? Or is this requirement only when you open business bank account?

Depends on the Bank - Business Bank for sure.