Help on Setup an offshore company

[streaminy]

Hello

I want to start an offshore company, but I don't know how to start.
I live in Germany but would like to open a company for example in seychelles (LLC, LTD) and a bank account and get a credit card to use it in Germany.

My intention is to sell via my website wjith PayPal, Skrill and Credit Card licenses to my CMS system.
Since I don't want to do any bookkeeping or tax returns, I am looking for a full service agency that can do all this for me.

Could you please recommend something to me and maybe give me some tips on how to proceed?

thank you

 

[Tax Cow]

I assume you own a small business and can not afford the costly tax planning that results in a legal solution.

Your optimal path is to pick a 0% tax jurisdiction with access to PayPal and bank in a non-CRS country.

There are some offshore agents lurking around here, maybe they can help.

 

[Spinat]

It is going to be complicated to find something that fits all of your requirements for instant 0% tax jurisdiction and PayPal has yet to be shown to be valid!

You want to go for a low tax jurisdiction and even you find it you will get a hard time to avoid taxes in Germany!

 

[streaminy]

@xzars
which country you recommend?

@blueweb
why hard time? must i report my company in germany too?... And what about Bulgaria LTD?

 

[Spinat]

why hard time? must i report my company in germany too?... And what about Bulgaria LTD?

The German tax man is difficult yo convince that the company is managed and controlled anywhere else as long as you live in Germany! In the past it was way easier but today you need to show them the director of the company as well as shareholders and how the activity take place.

 

[streaminy]

The German tax man is difficult yo convince that the company is managed and controlled anywhere else as long as you live in Germany! In the past it was way easier but today you need to show them the director of the company as well as shareholders and how the activity take place.

That means if i open a limited in Bulgaria, i must pay the tax in bulgaria and germany too right?

 

[neweraoffshore]

Hey streaminy. I am from Germany, too. I don't recommend any countries on the OECD Black list if you want to have your shop registered with a German company. What do you want to have in your imprint on your Website? Should there be a German company or doesn't it matter?

Actually I would recommend you to establish a German Company, so you won't have problems with paypal etc. and then transfer the profits to an offshore company. Non OECD black listed offshore jurisdiction would be Hong Kong and USA. I mostly prefer the USA. Get a Nominee or find a way to register the company in an anonymous way with for example a "nominee nominee" (someone you pay to go to an offshore provider and open the company for you) or use Darks.
Because there is no legal way for 0% tax if you continue living in Germany, make all business decisions in Germany and get your payout in Germany. If any lawyer wants to convince you that it is 100% legally possible with some cool company constructions, he just wants a new customer and doesn't care about you.


But in my opinion, it is worth the risk. And worth the work. Because getting a bank account is not so easy these days.
If you mind the arms-length-principle (Fremdvergleichsprinzip), which should not be so difficult for you because you have an online shop for which you can make very high invoices for web design,AI marketing algorithm which don't exist, or overinvoice some plugins you have bought, the risk is quite low.

 

[companix]

Poland or Hungary LTD is with 9% tax, good option in EU with good banks

 

[streaminy]

I can pay the taxes for example in Bulgaria no problem for me, but I do not want that I have to report my company in Germany and pay taxes in germany too, because I want to have it anonym. The money can stay on the account in Bulgaria. It is enough for me if I have a credit card with which I can withdraw the money.

 

[neweraoffshore]

The problem with offshore companies and bank accounts in the EU, is that the EU is not stable when it comes to tax laws. Right now all the governments are missing money and they blame tax evaders for this. So there are a lot of parties and people in the EU parlament who want "tax justice" for the EU. If they make EU wide laws they will effect every country in the EU. For example right now they want to make a "beneficial owner" list, where every company in the EU has to report the beneficial owner the nominee is working for. I don't think having an offshore company within the EU is a solution for the future.

 

[Spinat]

If you can setup a real company with real office and some staff that is not controlled by you it's possible to make use of double tax treaties, you want to study this a little for instant here Treaties for the avoidance of double taxation concluded by Member States - Taxation and Customs Union - European Commission

You could also use a company which isn't setup by you at all but controlled by someone say in a tax free country and which is already established with bank account etc. pay this guy 5 - 10% of the turnover and visit him if you need money or get a card to withdraw the money in an ATM, risky I know. For some it is better to pay 5-10% of the turnover rather than 40 - 50%

 

[user9823671]

I can pay the taxes for example in Bulgaria no problem for me, but I do not want that I have to report my company in Germany and pay taxes in germany too, because I want to have it anonym. The money can stay on the account in Bulgaria. It is enough for me if I have a credit card with which I can withdraw the money.

The following is what I understand things to be, so take anything with a pinch of salt.
It isn't you that reports it. If you open a business bank account in bulgaria, then CRS (common reporting standard) laws means the Bulagiran bank reports it to Germany.So Germany will know.
If the company is tax resident in Bulgaria and it pays tax in Bulgaria, then DTA (double tax agreements) will mean you don't have to pay tax in Germany. HOWEVER, (and here my understanding gets fuzzy) as the company is run by you, in Germany, Germany has a claim that the business is infact tax resident in Germany and can tax it as a German company. CFC (controlled foreign company) laws (which from a post from another user may not apply in this case - I don't know - but this law lets the country where the UBO is resident to claim the company is tax resident in that country (although may just apply to 0% tax havens - again it seems to get complicated.

because I want to have it anonym

Unless your profit is significant, then this is not going to happen, those days are gone. With money you can set up some structure from what I understand, but it is expensive and only worth it for big money. The other route to go down is highly illegal and use fake documents.

One possible avenue, would be for nominees, but I don't know whether the bank account still wants to know you as the UBO or whether it can all be done in nominees. If so, only the company who incorporate / set things up for you will know you. However, expect to pay for EVERY.LITTLE.THING you want the nominee to do. Need a signature. Pay. Need to receive something. Pay.


As I say, I am no expert, just been reading on things the last year or so as need to do something similar to you. lots more knowledgable people on the forum than me

 

[JimBeam]

If the company is tax resident in Bulgaria and it pays tax in Bulgaria, then DTA (double tax agreements) will mean you don't have to pay tax in Germany. HOWEVER, (and here my understanding gets fuzzy) as the company is run by you, in Germany, Germany has a claim that the business is infact tax resident in Germany and can tax it as a German company. CFC (controlled foreign company) laws (which from a post from another user may not apply in this case - I don't know - but this law lets the country where the UBO is resident to claim the company is tax resident in that country (although may just apply to 0% tax havens - again it seems to get complicated.

Exactly! And Germany has one of the strictest CFC rules (they are not exactly the same in all countries). So basically they will ask you more or less these two things:

1. Where are business decisions made - and since you reside in Germany - it's Germany.
2. Do you have substance in Bulgaria (offices, workers etc...) - I guess you won't have any of these either.

And since you can't prove any of these two they'll tax you for income even in Bulgaria. Also, you can even end up in jail. That's a good way to make sure that you'll pay the taxes and won't mess with them again.

Unless your profit is significant, then this is not going to happen, those days are gone. With money you can set up some structure from what I understand, but it is expensive and only worth it for big money.

Correct! I guess that it's not worth it for 500k or even 1M.

One possible avenue, would be for nominees, but I don't know whether the bank account still wants to know you as the UBO or whether it can all be done in nominees. If so, only the company who incorporate / set things up for you will know you. However, expect to pay for EVERY.LITTLE.THING you want the nominee to do. Need a signature. Pay. Need to receive something. Pay.

Using a nominee can be expensive (I pay €200 to nominee to sing me one document).
About nominee setting up a bank account for you - good luck with that... I don't thing that's possible now. Banks now want to know who the UBO and since they know it's you - they can then forward that information on request (CRS).


One note: many rules change so quickly lately, so you might figure the right solution for you but in year or two time, things can change and your "privacy" can be disclosed (panama papers, countries being forced into CRS...) and you get exposed and in trouble in no time. So have that in mind too...

 

[user9823671]

Correct! I guess that it's not worth it for 500k or even 1M.

The more money you are talking about the more options you have, the safer it is, and the more professional the people handling it. To think someone is going to risk anything for a company paying them $1000+- a year is farcical. If you are just trying to avoid paying $20k in taxes, no one is really going to help you. Trying to evade millions of tax and the world of international bankers opens up to you.

Again, everything is just from my reading and I don't advise anyone to listen to me without speaking to knowledgable people. But if you are running a one person internet company from within Europe, your options these days are very very limited to lower the tax burden of your resident company whilst keeping things legal. The only way (without serious money) is to become non-eu resident and move somewhere else and become resident there. Again, more of an option if you wanting to evade a serious tax bill, but for $20k? You are leaving behind a lot of benefits of being in a developed Eu country.

IF you don't mind going gray / slightly illegal / full illegal, then I think you have some options. But you need to way up risk vs reward vs chance of getting caught

 

[JimBeam]

The more money you are talking about the more options you have, the safer it is, and the more professional the people handling it. To think someone is going to risk anything for a company paying them $1000+- a year is farcical. If you are just trying to avoid paying $20k in taxes, no one is really going to help you. Trying to evade millions of tax and the world of international bankers opens up to you.

Again, everything is just from my reading and I don't advise anyone to listen to me without speaking to knowledgable people. But if you are running a one person internet company from within Europe, your options these days are very very limited to lower the tax burden of your resident company whilst keeping things legal. The only way (without serious money) is to become non-eu resident and move somewhere else and become resident there. Again, more of an option if you wanting to evade a serious tax bill, but for $20k? You are leaving behind a lot of benefits of being in a developed Eu country.

IF you don't mind going gray / slightly illegal / full illegal, then I think you have some options. But you need to way up risk vs reward vs chance of getting caught

I agree...
Nicely said!

 

[bastard]

I learned it dosen't matter if it is EU or USA sooner or later they will require your documents and then your a busted! You want to realize you have to pay tax, your options are to leanr how much tax you want to pay! OR you have to find the forum users favorit word for this, shitholes, to setup a company and something looking like banking somewhere with the risk it include.