Opportunities for dual citizenship holders

[heaven]

I was born and raised in Belgium, I have Belgian and Italian citizenship. Some people find it interesting to have multiple citizenships for passports. Other than some extra countries to travel to I don’t really see a benefit for me.

Do you know of ways for me to use/exploit my dual citizenship? Regarding tax or asset protection for example. I'm interested in white, grey or black hat options.

Maybe relevant: I own a company in Belgium, but I'm planning on opening a subsidiary abroad to lower our Belgian company tax bill.

Thanks!

 

[Marzio]

You could use your unused passport (for example the italian one if you live in Belgium as i understant) to open a company abroad and relative bank account. When CRS will kick the reporting bank will notify a country where you are not resident.

 

[Davis123]

You could use your unused passport (for example the italian one if you live in Belgium as i understant) to open a company abroad and relative bank account. When CRS will kick the reporting bank will notify a country where you are not resident.

Interesting but you have to live there temporarily to open up the company I meant you need some utility bill etc to open any structure.

 

[JohnLocke]

I'm interested in white, grey or black hat options.

That's used to be SEO language

I don't believe this is of use for anything, both are EU countries, not really any benefit here.

 

[LegitBananas]

Interesting but you have to live there temporarily to open up the company I meant you need some utility bill etc to open any structure.

A utility bill is the least of your worries. It's not hard to set up a phone contract for example with a temporary address like an airBnB to get such documents.

 

[Davis123]

A utility bill is the least of your worries. It's not hard to set up a phone contract for example with a temporary address like an airBnB to get such documents.

I love the Admin's response. Both are EU countries aren't they?

 

[Marzio]

both are EU countries, not really any benefit here

Exactly the contrary. Because both are EU countries, this will not trigger any suspect of using the second passport as a method of fooling CRS. Do you think that we are the only ones that know about antigua, dominica and other caribbean passports that could be bought with some cash? OECD knows this and soon or later will ask banks to double check anybody with those passports. Italian passport is not for sale and this is the main selling point of using it.

 

[JohnLocke]

Exactly the contrary. Because both are EU countries, this will not trigger any suspect of using the second passport as a method of fooling CRS. Do you think that we are the only ones that know about antigua, dominica and other caribbean passports that could be bought with some cash? OECD knows this and soon or later will ask banks to double check anybody with those passports. Italian passport is not for sale and this is the main selling point of using it.

If you think so, be happy, I don't believe a single word of this.

 

[Marzio]

I don't believe a single word of this.

Would you care to explain why? I'm always open to different perspectives.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Sometimes there are tax advantages specific to citizens. Sometimes there are advantages with related countries. For example, I believe certain things might be easier to achieve in Brazil if you have a Portuguese passport, or vice versa. The same is true in Scandinavian countries (moving to Norway with a Swedish passport is probably easier than with a Czech passport - though both Sweden and the Czech Republic are in the EU).

So I wouldn’t say “EU passports are all the same.” Unfortunately, however, I don’t know exactly what benefits an Italian passport would award...

 

[daxbr]

One thing you can do with them is to give up one to obtain another that provides you with benefits you desire. Example exchange italian for russian if no extradition is important to you. It gets even better if names are different, or misspelled.

 

[Davis123]

I have a question for you guys. I think someone stated you can't open up a bank account with Carribean psssport even in their own countries? I was under the impression a lot of people are using these passports as their primary passport.

 

[heaven]

You could use your unused passport (for example the italian one if you live in Belgium as i understant) to open a company abroad and relative bank account. When CRS will kick the reporting bank will notify a country where you are not resident.

Interesting but you have to live there temporarily to open up the company I meant you need some utility bill etc to open any structure.

That's also something I thought about. Go to an attractive EU location/non CRS country: get residency with the Italian passport, go to the local Italian Embassy and proof residency, request new passport. Then I have a Bulgarian / Puerto Rican address on my Italian passport for example Then I'm pretty sure the CRS won't kick in. However it's not water tight, cause I am still born in Belgium. So if they decide to share info to the place of birth I'm fucked. If they google me as well. I would also only use this setup for some personal investment, not to invoice my Belgian company. But I'm pretty sure it's not worth the risk.

That's used to be SEO language

I don't believe this is of use for anything, both are EU countries, not really any benefit here.

I know! Also used in cybersecurity, so I figured it would make sense
White legal, grey so so, and black illegal

Sometimes there are tax advantages specific to citizens. Sometimes there are advantages with related countries. For example, I believe certain things might be easier to achieve in Brazil if you have a Portuguese passport, or vice versa. The same is true in Scandinavian countries (moving to Norway with a Swedish passport is probably easier than with a Czech passport - though both Sweden and the Czech Republic are in the EU).

So I wouldn’t say “EU passports are all the same.” Unfortunately, however, I don’t know exactly what benefits an Italian passport would award...

Thank you for your input, the only benefit I can think of is Panama residency. A couple years ago I looked into it and if I have Italian citizenship I will have even more easier access than the 'friendly countries list' or something. Can't remember specifically.

One thing you can do with them is to give up one to obtain another that provides you with benefits you desire. Example exchange italian for russian if no extradition is important to you. It gets even better if names are different, or misspelled.

Interesting. Are you saying I can simply swap citizenships? Otherwise I don't see the point in having a citizenship of a country that doesn't allow it.

I have a question for you guys. I think someone stated you can't open up a bank account with Carribean psssport even in their own countries? I was under the impression a lot of people are using these passports as their primary passport.

I'm not allowed to open a bank account with my Italian passport in Belgium or vice versa. You always have to show the passport of the country you are in. If I want to open a bank account in other country with my Italian passport it will work, I just don't see the benefit of it currently.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Thank you for your input, the only benefit I can think of is Panama residency. A couple years ago I looked into it and if I have Italian citizenship I will have even more easier access than the 'friendly countries list' or something. Can't remember specifically.

It's very well possible that's what I was thinking of... I thought there was something that an Italian passport granted access to, but I couldn't remember what it was.

 

[CaptK]

In my opinion I would use the Italian passport and register it in UAE. Set up a company there and use the Italian passport.
When you fly there use the Italian passport.

That will allow you to stay under the radar but you must spend 30 days a year and its about 15K a year running costs. If that works for you then that is what I would do.

Or you can look at setting up a UK LLC as a pass through.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

That will allow you to stay under the radar but you must spend 30 days a year and its about 15K a year running costs. If that works for you then that is what I would do.

Why 30 days? Is that the unofficial limit for a tax residency certificate?

 

[heaven]

In my opinion I would use the Italian passport and register it in UAE. Set up a company there and use the Italian passport.
When you fly there use the Italian passport.

That will allow you to stay under the radar but you must spend 30 days a year and its about 15K a year running costs. If that works for you then that is what I would do.

Or you can look at setting up a UK LLC as a pass through.

Thank you for your input! Something like this? "That's also something I thought about. Go to an attractive EU location/non CRS country: get residency with the Italian passport, go to the local Italian Embassy and proof residency, request new passport. Then I have a Bulgarian / Puerto Rican address on my Italian passport for example Then I'm pretty sure the CRS won't kick in. However it's not water tight, cause I am still born in Belgium. So if they decide to share info to the place of birth I'm fucked. If they google me as well. I would also only use this setup for some personal investment, not to invoice my Belgian company. But I'm pretty sure it's not worth the risk."

And why especially UAE?

Why would a pass through entity be interesting in this case?

 

[Marzio]

if they decide to share info to the place of birth I'm fucked

Do you have an idea what this would mean for banks and governments around the world? How many people are born in a place and study/live/work in totally different countries? This is a gigornmous amount of data to process.

 

[Loisir]

I share the Admin Idea. Both are UE countries.

In Practice you can stay under the radar until a certain amount , certain period ( which i don't know btw). But it isn't a good protection.

AEOI, Europe treaty for tax help, Eu Regulation. Everything is automated in EU and it is really hard to avoid this. A lot of UHNW escape high tax countries to get Belgium residence and citizenship, this is a thing that EU tax office is heavily monitoring.

Play as you want but in practice again it should word for a certain period of time

 

[heaven]

Do you have an idea what this would mean for banks and governments around the world? How many people are born in a place and study/live/work in totally different countries? This is a gigornmous amount of data to process.

I know but as a bank I would send it to every country possible to be compliant.

I share the Admin Idea. Both are UE countries.

In Practice you can stay under the radar until a certain amount , certain period ( which i don't know btw). But it isn't a good protection.

AEOI, Europe treaty for tax help, Eu Regulation. Everything is automated in EU and it is really hard to avoid this. A lot of UHNW escape high tax countries to get Belgium residence and citizenship, this is a thing that EU tax office is heavily monitoring.

Play as you want but in practice again it should word for a certain period of time

You're probably right. That's why I'm not sure if it's worth the risk.

I know, some UNHW are. I'm just not sure why. Would love to know and see if I can use the same or similar techniques.