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Question Spaniard - Crypto - Exit strategy - 7 figures (Part 2)

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azb1

Mentor Group Gold
Yeah, regarding the company formation and getting the company+personal bank accounts, there are no issues as everything is straight forward.
The actual issues are regarding the “methods” used to obfuscate the origin of the funds that will be received into those bank accounts.
Why should anyone obfuscate since we’re talking about legit coins bought when one btc was $500-$1000?
And that’s a big red flag since the people offering the setup are not willing to provide more details.
I mean, the setup involving that the payouts to be considered merchant payments by the local UAE banks is considered money laundering since those invoices will be fake and have nothing to do with a real business.
And not to mention that the risk is very high if you end up with some money laundering charges. Why risk that instead of paying taxes in your local country?

here’s a news article regarding money laundering charges in UAE (of couse, it says drugs and pakistan....but still)

PS: I think that people offering “solutions” on top of simple company formation services should provide more details because some people might end up regretting when something will go wrong.
They are using a Money exchange -> Bank account. They are stupid and Ignorant.
Merchant Account -> Bank Account, there will Be no problem.

I am not an expert. That is just my input.
 

CaptK

Nominee Company Bank Account Real Estate Passport
Mentor Group Gold
Yeah, regarding the company formation and getting the company+personal bank accounts, there are no issues as everything is straight forward.
The actual issues are regarding the “methods” used to obfuscate the origin of the funds that will be received into those bank accounts.
Why should anyone obfuscate since we’re talking about legit coins bought when one btc was $500-$1000?
And that’s a big red flag since the people offering the setup are not willing to provide more details.
I mean, the setup involving that the payouts to be considered merchant payments by the local UAE banks is considered money laundering since those invoices will be fake and have nothing to do with a real business.
And not to mention that the risk is very high if you end up with some money laundering charges. Why risk that instead of paying taxes in your local country?

here’s a news article regarding money laundering charges in UAE (of couse, it says drugs and pakistan....but still)

PS: I think that people offering “solutions” on top of simple company formation services should provide more details because some people might end up regretting when something will go wrong.

Myself and others have given you a base of how to do it. There is no big secret on cash out.

Crypto is legal in the UAE, it can be bought and sold like stocks. It's just not allowed to be used as a currency. Definition being that it can not be exchanged for goods or services, like to buy a car.

There are some major Crypto whales in the UAE. They have both onshore and FZ companies. So if you have an FZ and your buyer is an FZ company no VAT is applicable. If they use a company elsewhere, like UK, Malaysia or HK then no issues.

If you go down the route of invoicing for a service then common sense is to do it in a field you know well and can produce satisfactory paperwork.

Lastly as a bit of extra insight into large amounts in the UAE is to be paid by someone with clout. When the bank officer see's the name who sent it. They will not risk getting deported for asking stupid question.

Putting this together and building these contacts takes time and credibility. Just like a lawyer or solicitor would. With respect to myself, this is how I earn a living and I also have people who are parts of the process who charge a fee.
 

bossTrader75

New member
One mayor concern which kept from using Dubai as a crypto cashout place was the horrible law situation over there which i found a website dedicated to it when i was watching videos on youtube when i searched " money laudering dubai " there came up quit few documentations : )

in one of them also one minisiter said " all Foreign investment in dubai should stay in UAE system and they perceive it as their own kinda "

like they lure massiv amount of people with black money into the country but make it hard for them to exit the money !

and the main problem or concern is the Corruption and bad ass native Arabic people who can Prison you very easy if they have contacts to anyone in justice or police or kindfamily etc there soo many horror stories it really made me change my mind even it seems to be the perfect crypto heaven cashout place with no question asked with cash payments , easy OTC deals and many developers accept crypto for real estate purchases : )




but once i discovered this Blog who documents how expats gets abused by the native people and locked down in prison in some cases forever without any help i change my Mind .

Everyone who consider Dubau should read their Blog Articels from last year First :) !

There is a germany guy in prison because his ex business local arab didnt recognize him and were first fight him when he visit him after few years and later he recognizue him and they talk : )

but neighbours of this relatives of shrek family saw this he fight and he lost his Bride and felt ashamed and he made up story he wanted to steal his purse thatswhy he fighting him...later the cops came to hotel and took this germany guy ! his ex business partner with whom he was travel to china and italy etc !!

he sit since 2017 in prison and some german polticans try to do smth in german parlament but nothing happens !!
because this old senil arab could not recognize his old friend and box him first on the street !

the story is in german newspaper easy to google :)

this is just one case from many you guys can find on that Detained in dubai Blog !!


Keep away from any locals when you doing business in Dubai i would say :) !
 

CaptK

Nominee Company Bank Account Real Estate Passport
Mentor Group Gold
He used a local as a business partner. Even the government have realised that this was happening, so they have brought in new legislation to allow 100% onshore ownership.

EXIT PLAN!!!!! Is the number one thing people don't look to do and there are lots of good jurisdictions to move your money to. Diversifying your banking is key and should always be done situation permitted.

Lastly buy hard asset's like land and gold as these have stood the time and they don't make it anymore.
 

jonnyG

New member
I'm also in similar situation. So let's you go to Dubai and do everything you guys said. You redo your kyc or make new exchange accounts that you haven't registered before and withdrawal evertyhing in your personal bank account. Then take flight to you european country get a rent and open there a bank account and transfer everything from your UAE bank account. Would this be a problem ?
 

CaptK

Nominee Company Bank Account Real Estate Passport
Mentor Group Gold
I'm also in similar situation. So let's you go to Dubai and do everything you guys said. You redo your kyc or make new exchange accounts that you haven't registered before and withdrawal evertyhing in your personal bank account. Then take flight to you european country get a rent and open there a bank account and transfer everything from your UAE bank account. Would this be a problem ?
Depends on how you left your affairs?
How long before you go back?
What structure was used to cash up?
 

JJReddick

New member
Love the convo, looking into moving to Dubai soon. 3 questions for the experts:

1) Say I set up everything with DLS Dubai, then take a flight from the EU to Dubai in June, sign all the papers, initiate the procedure, and then fly back to the EU. Will I have to go back to Dubai soon to rent a place or can i allow the summer to go by and move in October / November, while already being officially a Dubai tax resident?

2) Cashing out: Very surprised to see such big workarounds mentioned above. I have cashed out from crypto through the years using an Italian bank (my country of origin, but in which I have not lived for over 15 years), while being a UK resident first and Dutch resident later on. While I understand I should mainly ask this to my Italian bank, I wonder whether me being Dubai resident would somehow hinder this process, as Dubai is not in the EU?

3) Spending it: say I cash out at some point in 2021 to a Dubai based financial institution, I would obviously like to reinvest (say in 2022) what I cashed out in non crypto assets (namely in EU real estate assets, across different countries, likely UK, Netherlands, Germany and Italy) and move permanently to Europe (to a country in which I previously was not a tax resident), possibly in 2022 or 2023 the latest. How well would these residency and funds movements be perceived by EU tax authorities? Any experiences you guys could talk about? How long should I be committed to keep my residency status and my funds to Dubai once I cash out, in order to avoid any issues with EU (and Dubai?) authorities?

Thanks!
 

CaptK

Nominee Company Bank Account Real Estate Passport
Mentor Group Gold
Love the convo, looking into moving to Dubai soon. 3 questions for the experts:

1) Say I set up everything with DLS Dubai, then take a flight from the EU to Dubai in June, sign all the papers, initiate the procedure, and then fly back to the EU. Will I have to go back to Dubai soon to rent a place or can i allow the summer to go by and move in October / November, while already being officially a Dubai tax resident?
No you need to be there for at least 3 months continuously to get a UAE Tax resident.
2) Cashing out: Very surprised to see such big workarounds mentioned above. I have cashed out from crypto through the years using an Italian bank (my country of origin, but in which I have not lived for over 15 years), while being a UK resident first and Dutch resident later on. While I understand I should mainly ask this to my Italian bank, I wonder whether me being Dubai resident would somehow hinder this process, as Dubai is not in the EU?
If your bank have been ok with it thus far then continue to use them.
3) Spending it: say I cash out at some point in 2021 to a Dubai based financial institution, I would obviously like to reinvest (say in 2022) what I cashed out in non crypto assets (namely in EU real estate assets, across different countries, likely UK, Netherlands, Germany and Italy) and move permanently to Europe (to a country in which I previously was not a tax resident), possibly in 2022 or 2023 the latest. How well would these residency and funds movements be perceived by EU tax authorities? Any experiences you guys could talk about?
Should be fine, if you are not going back to Netherlands or UK.
How long should I be committed to keep my residency status and my funds to Dubai once I cash out, in order to avoid any issues with EU (and Dubai?) authorities?
Commit at least a year.
 

JJReddick

New member
No you need to be there for at least 3 months continuously to get a UAE Tax resident.

If your bank have been ok with it thus far then continue to use them.

Should be fine, if you are not going back to Netherlands or UK.

Commit at least a year.
Awesome, thanks
 

Bill D

Mentor Group Gold
No you need to be there for at least 3 months continuously to get a UAE Tax resident.

If your bank have been ok with it thus far then continue to use them.

Should be fine, if you are not going back to Netherlands or UK.

Commit at least a year.
if you come less than 6 months in 2021 (example after july) then you aren't tax resident at all from uae right, and it does not remove you any tax liability on your previous residence for whole year 2021 isn't it

for example if you go to UAE in september and stay there, your income from september to december 2021 is still taxable to the country in which you are tax resident in 2021?

Why do you mention 3 months ? I see everywhere the 6 months rules
 

jonnyG

New member
Depends on how you left your affairs?
How long before you go back?
What structure was used to cash up?
Used localbitcoin and bitstamp but not planing to return to the same country wich I live now
I will go back to my birth country
 

CaptK

Nominee Company Bank Account Real Estate Passport
Mentor Group Gold
if you come less than 6 months in 2021 (example after july) then you aren't tax resident at all from uae right, and it does not remove you any tax liability on your previous residence for whole year 2021 isn't it
All depends on your countries rules. If you can prove substance by way of utility bills then you will be fine to claim part year.
for example if you go to UAE in september and stay there, your income from september to december 2021 is still taxable to the country in which you are tax resident in 2021?
If you can prove you have been in the UAE with card transaction and utility bills you will be fine.
Why do you mention 3 months ? I see everywhere the 6 months rules
In my experience we have applied for Tax certificate after the 3rd month salary and received it
 

Brutus

Active Member
As said, Dubai is looking like the best option right now. And I'm willing to make things as simple as posible.
Meaning I'm willing to stay 187 days in Dubai this year and the next one.
And then move to the next place where I can have my money without questions and enjoy life as I want.
Even if you move forward you can keep the UAE scheme - they issue tax certificate after 1-2 years even if you don't live 180 days there.

Go for it.
so you have to stay in Dubai 2 years and not just the 187 days? After the 187 days you can apply for tax residency, this takes 1-2 years to be issued?

Do I understand it correctly?
 

Fred

Dubai Expat
Mentor Group Gold
Commercial Service
so you have to stay in Dubai 2 years and not just the 187 days? After the 187 days you can apply for tax residency, this takes 1-2 years to be issued?

Do I understand it correctly?
No you mix up the things.

You get official the tax certificate by staying 183 days in the UAE but if you already did get the tax certificate 1-2 times you get it easy and without even staying 183 days in the UAE.

Everybody I know got his tax certificate for 2020 and majority of them didn't made the 183 days in 2020.
 

Brutus

Active Member
No you mix up the things.

You get official the tax certificate by staying 183 days in the UAE but if you already did get the tax certificate 1-2 times you get it easy and without even staying 183 days in the UAE.

Everybody I know got his tax certificate for 2020 and majority of them didn't made the 183 days in 2020.
This process will start from the day I arrive in Dubai? In your experience how long it takes if not the 183 days?
 

Fred

Dubai Expat
Mentor Group Gold
Commercial Service
Hi @jonnyG and @Brutus ,

it starts with the day you are resident.

If the Dubai Company Formation and Residence Visa is issued remote while you are outside the UAE - you get the Residence Visa issued to your passport and the Emirates ID within 1 week.
 
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