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The list of non CRS countries 2019 - 2020

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I have compiled the below small list for all of you to get a quick overview of what countries don't participate in the CRS (The Common Reporting Standard) which is an information standard for the Automatic Exchange of Information (AEOI) regarding bank accounts on global level, between the tax authorities, which the Organisation of Economic Co-operation and Development ( OECD) has developed. It's purpose is to combat tax evasion.

Lots of information I know, but hope it helps people to understand what the list is about and how important it can be for one looking for total privacy.

here is the list in alphabetical order:
  • Armenia
  • Cambodia
  • Dominican Republic
  • Republic of Georgia
  • Guatemala
  • Kazakhstan
  • Macedonia
  • Montenegro
  • Paraguay
  • Philippines
  • Puerto Rico
  • Serbia
  • Ukraine
  • United States (Consider FATCA RULES) !!

You need to check each country as time goes since this is a ever changing world and the fact that some countries actually will be part of the CRS is a ever lasting threat.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MiddleEuroAsia

opportunist.
@Admin I tried to publish the thread but I received this error message
"Oops! We ran into some problems, Please try again later. More error details may be in the browser console."
So, what should I do now?
 

AMD

Offshore Agent
Mentor Group Gold
@Admin I tried to publish the thread but I received this error message
"Oops! We ran into some problems, Please try again later. More error details may be in the browser console."
So, what should I do now?
did you try to PM him or something? You need to increase your post count to avoid the SPAM checker to kick in.
 

Hydrogene75

New member
I was also considering opening a bank account in Ukraine or Belarus until my Ukrainian friend (who grew up and lived there for years) told me about how the local banks can't be trusted at all:
- highly expensive fees for withdrawals/conversion rates
- risk of bankruptcy, apparently it happens very often and the government is constantly bailing-out
- legal procedures against the banks are almost impossible due to corruption.
 

mmichi

New member
On the topic of offshore banking in "non- CRS countries":
If the bank in the "non-CRS countries" is an international bank(say for example HSBC) with operations globally i.e. in "CRS countries" and possibly also my home country, does that open up the risk of them disclosing info internally?
If the said bank (HSBC in this example) is allowed to transmit personal info from the "non-CRS country" location/entity bank to the "CRS country" bank, then I am assuming the whole purpose of the thread would be defeated.
Happy to rephrase the question or give an example with random names if the above scenario does not make sense.
 

Martin Everson

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If the bank in the "non- CRS countries" is an international bank(say for example HSBC) with operations globally i.e. in "CRS countries" and possibly also my home country, does that open up the risk of them disclosing info internally?
The bank can only hand tax related account data over to the local tax authority to be passed on to foreign tax authorities. If the local tax authority (aka country) is not part of CRS then it will not be collecting CRS data from banks to pass on to foreign tax authorities. The locally licensed branch of an international bank must comply with local banking laws and data protection in most cases.
 

mmichi

New member
The bank can only hand tax related account data over to the local tax authority to be passed on to foreign tax authorities. If the local tax authority (aka country) is not part of CRS then it will not be collecting CRS data from banks to pass on to foreign tax authorities. The locally licensed branch of an international bank must comply with local banking laws and data protection in most cases.
Thanks Martin for the reply. Been reading your other replies too! Good stuff.

I was wondering if this is something others worry about as well or if it was just me being paranoid that the international banks can transmit personal data internally (from their non-CRS to CRS entities) under the guise of "centralized data storage to increase efficiency and cost optimization and better customer service yada yada"

In general would you say that you would avoid international banks due to this risk?

I, of course, politely request others to chime in their opinions as well if they have knowledge about this or experienced something like this.
Thanks
 

Martin Everson

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In general would you say that you would avoid international banks due to this risk?

If you bank with its local branch and want to use its foreign branch in an non- CRS country to avoid CRS its not a good idea from sleep well at night situation even if facts say otherwise. In general I avoiding CRS by using a non-CRS bank is not a good idea. Just relocate.
 

mmichi

New member
If you bank with its local branch and want to use its foreign branch in an non- CRS country to avoid CRS its not a good idea from sleep well at night situation even if facts say otherwise. In general I avoiding CRS by using a non-CRS bank is not a good idea. Just relocate.
Thanks Martin, I perhaps failed in asking the question with more details. What I really wanted to ask:
Hypothetical example: Henry holds an account with one international CRS country bank in his home country (say for example BNP Paribas) and then wants to open an account in another international bank at a non-CRS location, say for example HSBC bank in the non-CRS country, say for example Egypt.
Is he justified in being worried about these 2 international banks sharing his personal info among themselves or is he being paranoid?

Thanks
 

Martin Everson

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What documents did they ask from you?

Basic proof of address and ID. I think things have changed so check if they still allow foreigners to open deposits and whether rates are any good now.
 

Reboot

Active Member
Just curious if the UK banks still have to change information with the EU countries now after Brexit?
 

mmichi

New member
Are CRS rules retrospective?

For eg, if a country agrees to CRS in June 2021, do they have to hand over all data of all customers even from Jan 2021?
Or do customers get some time window to get out of the banks in the said country after the announcement is made public?

Thanks
 

Martin Everson

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Staff member
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For eg, if a country agrees to CRS in June 2021, do they have to hand over all data of all customers even from Jan 2021?
Or do customers get some time window to get out of the banks in the said country after the announcement is made public?

Depends on first exchange date they agree. If they agree June 2021 is first exchange date then they have to use prior data from a year before in order to do an exchange.

 

mmichi

New member
Depends on first exchange date they agree. If they agree June 2021 is first exchange date then they have to use prior data from a year before in order to do an exchange.

Thanks Martin! so it sounds like it could be retrospective. Effectively, if they agree on 1st June 2021 and publish it in the newspapers for the very first time on 1st June 2021 that they are going to exchange prior data, then it would mean anyone who had an account in March 2021 also gets reported.

Though the link you sent seems to suggest that there is possibly a long wait time before such things happen, for eg "Georgia" is slated to be in 2023 which is 3 yrs from now.

What is your gut feeling about USA? How long until it starts reporting bank account data to other countries?

Thanks!
 

Martin Everson

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What is your gut feeling about USA? How long until it starts reporting bank account data to other countries?

They US has already been reporting for years already as part of FATCA.

See below what I wrote back in Feb 25th 2019


People never learn :rolleyes:. The IRS is already automatically sending the reciprocal FATCA information to 34 countries it deems credible like I said and more countries are being added ns2. FATCA is bilateral like I said and just because people don't hear the horror stories it does not mean people have not already been caught who have accounts in U.S :(. In your case depending on the country you live in they may just send details on the existence of a brokerage account. It will then be down to your sh*thole as to whether it will pursue you personally for more information on that account, secretly monitor you or just ignore the data if they got sent it. Tax authorities can investigate and watch you for years before taking action.

IRS Begins Sending Individual Account Information to Foreign Countries

----quote
Updated Oct. 2, 2015 10:27 p.m. ET

"The Internal Revenue Service has kicked off a new program under which it shares large amounts of individuals’ financial-account information with certain foreign countries, the agency said Friday.

The IRS said it received digital information about U.S. taxpayers’ foreign accounts from governments and firms around the world, and it sent information on foreigners’ U.S. accounts to government authorities in as many as 34 countries. While governments have exchanged such information in the past, the sharing wasn’t automatic and the scope was often far narrower. The deadline for the exchange to begin was Sept. 30.

According to the IRS, it will only share information with foreign countries which meet its “stringent safeguard, privacy, and technical standards,” and it has the ability to halt transmissions if it believes the standards aren’t being met.

The IRS declined to say which countries received information from the U.S. This week, the agency added 16 new countries, including Brazil, South Africa and India, to the list of those already eligible to receive financial-account details.

The information exchanged typically includes the name, address, tax identification number, account number, account balance, and dividend and interest payments, among other things. This disclosure applies to accounts above a certain threshold."


Countries eligible to receive information from the IRS about their taxpayers’ U.S. accounts:

  • Australia
  • Brazil
  • Canada
  • Czech Republic
  • Denmark
  • Estonia
  • Finland
  • France
  • Germany
  • Gibraltar
  • Guernsey
  • Hungary
  • Iceland
  • India
  • Ireland
  • Isle of Man
  • Italy
  • Jersey
  • Latvia
  • Liechtenstein
  • Lithuania
  • Luxembourg
  • Malta
  • Mauritius
  • Mexico
  • Netherlands
  • New Zealand
  • Norway
  • Poland
  • Slovenia
  • South Africa
  • Spain
  • Sweden
  • United Kingdom
--- end quote
 

mmichi

New member
They US has already been reporting for years already as part of FATCA.

See below what I wrote back in Feb 25th 2019
Interesting, cause I think I read an article by the Nomad capitalist guy that America did not share data back. But it could be old info.

Just as a thought experiment: based on the article you sent, it talks about IRS sharing data. However, what if a non-US citizen has only a bank account in US i.e. no tax returns or anything, no Tax ID in US. Just a plain bank account lying there in US passively doing nothing much as such, barring a few transactions once in a while. How does IRS get involved in that case? Or would you say that the US banks share info with IRS by default?
 

Martin Everson

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Or would you say that the US banks share info with IRS by default?

I went into the subject in depth in below thread. Have a read of the thread fully before asking further questions on the subject.

 
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