US$500K crypto cash out in UAE Total Cost

[Mercury]

I open this new thread as per @icecold advice.

It seems @Kol019201 doesn't want/care to answer this question for some reasons...

@Fred maybe you could help answering it in details assuming you provided the service? (let's take the example of cashing out US$500K crypto)

Total costs transparency is a legitimate question, and as you can see not only me is interested to know, for anyone who tries with difficulty to assess if the UAE structure/solution worths the move moneywise.
Comprehensive costs answer will be much appreciated.

Yes I can imagine that he simply doesn't care because it's not his business and still he is the one client that invited me for lunch in the DIFC to say thank you because the setup brings to him so much more value then what it costs and even answers from time to time PM's about our service.

He is no peanut counter and maybe the question is just bs in his eyes - who knows.

Back to your initial question - keep it 1%. So if you made 100s of 1000s of % like the most guys the last year's - nothing of a concern and somewhere between major exchange fees and a very competitive OTC desk charging 2-3% min.

Thank you @Fred.

So, basically on US$500K cashed out via the UAE structure you provide it will remain - all costs (fees/substance/money locked in the bank) considered - it will remain:
500K - 1% - 3% = 480K that can be freely used. That makes a total cost of US$20K.
Can you confirm?

 

[troubled soul]

This will be the company cost
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...ired-cheapest-among-all-dubai-freezone.33958/

500K - 1% - 3% = 480K that can be freely used. That makes a total cost of US$20K.

I my opinion this does not include when you finding cost. Crypto is volatile and exotic for most people around the world. Better to pay more here to full proof setup than paying less and end up with losing money.
May be you can find with 0.01% or less even better than market rate. Who know they run with your money? or bank banned them ????


Hope this help

 

[Fred]

I open this new thread as per @icecold advice.





Thank you @Fred.

So, basically on US$500K cashed out via the UAE structure you provide it will remain - all costs (fees/substance/money locked in the bank) considered - it will remain:
500K - 1% - 3% = 480K that can be freely used. That makes a total cost of US$20K.
Can you confirm?

I said 1%. This is on 500k$ - 5k$ in fees.

Met so many guys already and neither they liked me or not - they agreed - 1% is the real deal.

Like @azb1 put 9k$ formation on top and you are looking at 1.4% for the mentioned amount.

Starting 1m+$ things getting interesting and the big guys coming in which - sadly - most of the time just coming by our office and not hanging around here.

 

[CaptK]

In my experience, at that level don't go cheap as when they freeze your account you will suffer.
You need a structure to receive but you have to make sure the client paying you is a credible business or wealthy individual.
Someone who when they see the name of the sender is affluent and or respected.
$10K-$30K is ok once, but if they are repeatedly paying you then YOU will have questions to answer the buyer has received his coin and its no longer his problem. So build some real substance when the bank ask for proof of WORK DONE!!
Ideally open the your account at the same bank that the buyer has and ideally get them to introduce you to the bank at their level, if you are opening your account for the first time.

I would budget $9K for the structure and upto 5% OTC.

 

[Mercury]

Structure formation 9K$ = 1.8% of 500K$.

OTC fees (Fred) = 1%.
OTC fees (CaptK) = 5%.

So cost of cashing out 500K$ is somewhere between 2.8% and 6.8%.

If we add up costs of travelling/staying/extra banking fees in the UAE these % may increase substantially.

In my opinion UAE structure could clearly make sense for 7+ figures cash out.
However, for low-mid 6 figures it's worth considering getting a residence in a country with personal income tax up to 15-20% (various solutions in EU/America/Asia) and avoid the hassle.

 

[Fred]

Structure formation 9K$ = 1.8% of 500K$.

OTC fees (Fred) = 1%.
OTC fees (CaptK) = 5%.

So cost of cashing out 500K$ is somewhere between 2.8% and 6.8%.

If we add up costs of travelling/staying/extra banking fees in the UAE these % may increase substantially.

In my opinion UAE structure could clearly make sense for 7+ figures cash out.
However, for low-mid 6 figures it's worth considering getting a residence in a country with personal income tax up to 15-20% (various solutions in EU/America/Asia) and avoid the hassle.

However, for low-mid 6 figures it's worth considering getting a residence in a country with personal income tax up to 15-20% (various solutions in EU/America/Asia) and avoid the hassle.

You don't get the point about most guys doesn't have clear source of funds for there crypto wealth and can't work with a regulated jurisdiction forcing them to Accounting and Audits unless they commit huge crimes and forging everything.

That's the point about the UAE - the regulations are still very lex and therefore you only need to make sure the money gets cleared by the bank and due to no audit or accounting afterwards no one questions and therefore you are 100% within the law.

A lot of guys having Crypto Business not even me does understand it however if you trade frequently or have staking, minting, play to earn or whatever crypto earnings - have fun explaining this to German, French or Spanish Tax Authorities not even to talk about Malta or Cyprus - while they are for sure having the most lex regulations within EU - you have huge expenses on the accounting side for the above mentioned cases and then again a lot of guys showing up here in Dubai with living in Cyprus telling us that even in Cyprus everything is +- and everyone is right because in fact there is no real enforcement by the Tax Authorities however there is crazy enforcement by the Island Banks - typical Bank of Cyprus for newcomers in 2022 where if you even have found a good banker in Bank of Cyprus they will simply tell you they want to have source of funds for every single euro coming in. Crypto as source of funds is again not suitable to the bank and even you go with a Switzerland Private Bank / Crypto Start-Up Bank: absolutely clean source of funds, accounting and the question if you are with 500k$ again even interesting for this type of banks which I doubt.

Hint: Seba Bank charges 5.000 CHF/year for corporate accounts.

Let's assume you go in some Latin America / Asian shithole where the Cashout itself is not an issue which again is absolutely bulls**t - did you were ever dealing with a bank in Paraguay, Panama or Puerto Rico in 2022?

But let's assume everything is happy and working in this happy world - 500k$ - really? I mean you need to go the next level with private banks - even more important when you find yourself in some shitholes no matter if Caribbean, South America, Balkan, East Europe or Asia.

Prepare yourself for for Switzerland, Channel Island Banks looking at your 500k$ Cambodia source of wealth like this

While the exact same private bank sits in Dubai in the DIFC and is happy with whatever you give them from a local bank that did already the job - especially the DIFC regulated ones that are working within the DIFC, UAE law are your gateway from a classic tax heaven to the world.

Obviously this opportunity won't last forever - so I can only recommend everyone instead of turning a blind eye on it and being ignorant - to see the things how they are and keep by side all this off-topic bla bla bla about British guy gets dead sentence for having 0.0000001% whatever liquid in his car.

 

[Mercury]

I hear you @Fred.

According to your deep experience and considering what you've just mentioned, what would be currently the best value for money structure/jurisdiction for someone willing to crypto cash out not more not less than 100K$ a year? Likewise with 300K$ a year?

 

[calnana]

Crypto -> cash if you don't need the money in the bank is also an option, so is crypto -> property (albiet I hear brokers f you a bit on fees).

Edit: in dubai ^

 

[Fred]

I hear you @Fred.

According to your deep experience and considering what you've just mentioned, what would be currently the best value for money structure/jurisdiction for someone willing to crypto cash out not more not less than 100K$ a year? Likewise with 300K$ a year?

Dubai.

I'm an offshore nerd and considering worldwide options however I can't see anything.

Caribbean banks are dead beside of CIBC, RBC Royal and Cayman National - forget all the small local island banks and even forget more about the offshore banks which are only allowed to bank non-residents so inc ase they fail the real natives on each island are not effective.

Getting onboarded with CIBC, RBC Royal is impossible without having super strong ties to the Caribbean - I mean @Martin Everson has a personal account with CIBC being a Bahamian - so forget about turning up at this bank with your new bought Nevis, St Lucia or Dominica passport. Camyn National is so crazy overregulated that they don't extend there DIFC office in Dubai once the contract expires 2023 because if there is a guy showing up in person like me - there Cayman compliance just kills it.
Puerto Rico is no exception - Euro Pacific Bank is some collapsing pnzi scheme were we have seen already several clients simply not getting any money out and the new turning up banks like Zenus and Arival just give you shared account details and horrible compliance.

While you could 2019/2020 open in Miami branches of CITI, Wells and BoA by walk-in they all meanwhile show you the door as non-resident.

Then you have the 300$ US LLC disgregarded pass-through entity setup with either unicorn banking by Wise with SEPA and SWIFT EUR (in case they didn't blocked you as client) or Mercury type style of institutions with either local ACH bank details dedicated in your company name or wire transfers with shared account details.

I don't think it's necessary to talk about Malta and Cyprus in terms of banking, costs etc. - already discussed so many times here and for me personal - being burned almost 5 years ago with Malta Satabank - someone in 2022 asking for Malta Bank Account opening is just mental ill.

What else is there? Asia?

Let's look at at Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong.

Singapore requires local resident nominee director, accounting and bookkeeping, 17% tax and a bunch of more "bureaucrazy" - office rent etc.

Malaysia is moving back and forth with there famous Labuan, one year it's 3% tax next year Labuan isn't recognized at all, the year after you need 2 resident directors or or or.

To be fair - when you are willing to deal with this headache - at least with OCBC SG and MY - banking is a breeze. But then again we are talking about easily 30k$+ yearly.

Hong Kong is in this regards much better no matter if 8.25% tax or accounting - you have at least good fintechs for low risk business like Statrys, Currenxie and Airwallex but again forget local banking and have fun with this low risk EMI's and the here discussed Crypto cashout.

Then we have Mauritius Banking industry who is banking at least - even when less and less - some offshore companies in Seychelles and usually RAK offshore - however last year missing success stories here as well and then again what do we talk about here? Personal Skype Interviiews by ABC Banking Corp for 10.000$+ transactions etc.

Well that's it - everything else is medicore offshore stuff or dark grey/black area.

 

[troubled soul]

Dubai.

I'm an offshore nerd and considering worldwide options however I can't see anything.

Caribbean banks are dead beside of CIBC, RBC Royal and Cayman National - forget all the small local island banks and even forget more about the offshore banks which are only allowed to bank non-residents so inc ase they fail the real natives on each island are not effective.

Getting onboarded with CIBC, RBC Royal is impossible without having super strong ties to the Caribbean - I mean @Martin Everson has a personal account with CIBC being a Bahamian - so forget about turning up at this bank with your new bought Nevis, St Lucia or Dominica passport. Camyn National is so crazy overregulated that they don't extend there DIFC office in Dubai once the contract expires 2023 because if there is a guy showing up in person like me - there Cayman compliance just kills it.
Puerto Rico is no exception - Euro Pacific Bank is some collapsing pnzi scheme were we have seen already several clients simply not getting any money out and the new turning up banks like Zenus and Arival just give you shared account details and horrible compliance.

While you could 2019/2020 open in Miami branches of CITI, Wells and BoA by walk-in they all meanwhile show you the door as non-resident.

Then you have the 300$ US LLC disgregarded pass-through entity setup with either unicorn banking by Wise with SEPA and SWIFT EUR (in case they didn't blocked you as client) or Mercury type style of institutions with either local ACH bank details dedicated in your company name or wire transfers with shared account details.

I don't think it's necessary to talk about Malta and Cyprus in terms of banking, costs etc. - already discussed so many times here and for me personal - being burned almost 5 years ago with Malta Satabank - someone in 2022 asking for Malta Bank Account opening is just mental ill.

What else is there? Asia?

Let's look at at Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong.

Singapore requires local resident nominee director, accounting and bookkeeping, 17% tax and a bunch of more "bureaucrazy" - office rent etc.

Malaysia is moving back and forth with there famous Labuan, one year it's 3% tax next year Labuan isn't recognized at all, the year after you need 2 resident directors or or or.

To be fair - when you are willing to deal with this headache - at least with OCBC SG and MY - banking is a breeze. But then again we are talking about easily 30k$+ yearly.

Hong Kong is in this regards much better no matter if 8.25% tax or accounting - you have at least good fintechs for low risk business like Statrys, Currenxie and Airwallex but again forget local banking and have fun with this low risk EMI's and the here discussed Crypto cashout.

Then we have Mauritius Banking industry who is banking at least - even when less and less - some offshore companies in Seychelles and usually RAK offshore - however last year missing success stories here as well and then again what do we talk about here? Personal Skype Interviiews by ABC Banking Corp for 10.000$+ transactions etc.

Well that's it - everything else is medicore offshore stuff or dark grey/black area.

One of the nice analysis.

I started new Thread for this discussion

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...another-jurisdiction-in-offshore-world.37068/

 

[Gediminas]

Met so many guys already and neither they liked me or not - they agreed - 1% is the real deal.

I can agree - 1% is a very good deal.

 

[fbsworld]

Dubai.

I'm an offshore nerd and considering worldwide options however I can't see anything.

Caribbean banks are dead beside of CIBC, RBC Royal and Cayman National - forget all the small local island banks and even forget more about the offshore banks which are only allowed to bank non-residents so inc ase they fail the real natives on each island are not effective.

Getting onboarded with CIBC, RBC Royal is impossible without having super strong ties to the Caribbean - I mean @Martin Everson has a personal account with CIBC being a Bahamian - so forget about turning up at this bank with your new bought Nevis, St Lucia or Dominica passport. Camyn National is so crazy overregulated that they don't extend there DIFC office in Dubai once the contract expires 2023 because if there is a guy showing up in person like me - there Cayman compliance just kills it.
Puerto Rico is no exception - Euro Pacific Bank is some collapsing pnzi scheme were we have seen already several clients simply not getting any money out and the new turning up banks like Zenus and Arival just give you shared account details and horrible compliance.

While you could 2019/2020 open in Miami branches of CITI, Wells and BoA by walk-in they all meanwhile show you the door as non-resident.

Then you have the 300$ US LLC disgregarded pass-through entity setup with either unicorn banking by Wise with SEPA and SWIFT EUR (in case they didn't blocked you as client) or Mercury type style of institutions with either local ACH bank details dedicated in your company name or wire transfers with shared account details.

I don't think it's necessary to talk about Malta and Cyprus in terms of banking, costs etc. - already discussed so many times here and for me personal - being burned almost 5 years ago with Malta Satabank - someone in 2022 asking for Malta Bank Account opening is just mental ill.

What else is there? Asia?

Let's look at at Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong.

Singapore requires local resident nominee director, accounting and bookkeeping, 17% tax and a bunch of more "bureaucrazy" - office rent etc.

Malaysia is moving back and forth with there famous Labuan, one year it's 3% tax next year Labuan isn't recognized at all, the year after you need 2 resident directors or or or.

To be fair - when you are willing to deal with this headache - at least with OCBC SG and MY - banking is a breeze. But then again we are talking about easily 30k$+ yearly.

Hong Kong is in this regards much better no matter if 8.25% tax or accounting - you have at least good fintechs for low risk business like Statrys, Currenxie and Airwallex but again forget local banking and have fun with this low risk EMI's and the here discussed Crypto cashout.

Then we have Mauritius Banking industry who is banking at least - even when less and less - some offshore companies in Seychelles and usually RAK offshore - however last year missing success stories here as well and then again what do we talk about here? Personal Skype Interviiews by ABC Banking Corp for 10.000$+ transactions etc.

Well that's it - everything else is medicore offshore stuff or dark grey/black area.

Great worldwide analysis, thank you!

 

[kokolokop]

Dubai.

I'm an offshore nerd and considering worldwide options however I can't see anything.

Caribbean banks are dead beside of CIBC, RBC Royal and Cayman National - forget all the small local island banks and even forget more about the offshore banks which are only allowed to bank non-residents so inc ase they fail the real natives on each island are not effective.

Getting onboarded with CIBC, RBC Royal is impossible without having super strong ties to the Caribbean - I mean @Martin Everson has a personal account with CIBC being a Bahamian - so forget about turning up at this bank with your new bought Nevis, St Lucia or Dominica passport. Camyn National is so crazy overregulated that they don't extend there DIFC office in Dubai once the contract expires 2023 because if there is a guy showing up in person like me - there Cayman compliance just kills it.
Puerto Rico is no exception - Euro Pacific Bank is some collapsing pnzi scheme were we have seen already several clients simply not getting any money out and the new turning up banks like Zenus and Arival just give you shared account details and horrible compliance.

While you could 2019/2020 open in Miami branches of CITI, Wells and BoA by walk-in they all meanwhile show you the door as non-resident.

Then you have the 300$ US LLC disgregarded pass-through entity setup with either unicorn banking by Wise with SEPA and SWIFT EUR (in case they didn't blocked you as client) or Mercury type style of institutions with either local ACH bank details dedicated in your company name or wire transfers with shared account details.

I don't think it's necessary to talk about Malta and Cyprus in terms of banking, costs etc. - already discussed so many times here and for me personal - being burned almost 5 years ago with Malta Satabank - someone in 2022 asking for Malta Bank Account opening is just mental ill.

What else is there? Asia?

Let's look at at Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong.

Singapore requires local resident nominee director, accounting and bookkeeping, 17% tax and a bunch of more "bureaucrazy" - office rent etc.

Malaysia is moving back and forth with there famous Labuan, one year it's 3% tax next year Labuan isn't recognized at all, the year after you need 2 resident directors or or or.

To be fair - when you are willing to deal with this headache - at least with OCBC SG and MY - banking is a breeze. But then again we are talking about easily 30k$+ yearly.

Hong Kong is in this regards much better no matter if 8.25% tax or accounting - you have at least good fintechs for low risk business like Statrys, Currenxie and Airwallex but again forget local banking and have fun with this low risk EMI's and the here discussed Crypto cashout.

Then we have Mauritius Banking industry who is banking at least - even when less and less - some offshore companies in Seychelles and usually RAK offshore - however last year missing success stories here as well and then again what do we talk about here? Personal Skype Interviiews by ABC Banking Corp for 10.000$+ transactions etc.

Well that's it - everything else is medicore offshore stuff or dark grey/black area.

I agree with all that but is Dubai still worth it when cashing out only $100,000? I am assuming the expenses for visa and company set up will amount to $10,000 + cost of living in Dubai for a year will be around $40,000 so the total cost of that will be around $50,000. What would be the minimum amount that would make sense for me to move to Dubai and cash out crypto there slowly over a year time with your company.