Where should I go?

[ryanreed]

Hello community,

took me some time to sign up here, this website should really not block accounts that sign up via VPN and Proton.me. Anyways.
I got some issues in germany with the law enforcement, or well more specific tax office. I have a turkish and german citizenship.
Might sound weird, but its really not my fault with that issue. I did nothing illegal and its not a crime issue! Its the fault of the government or a specific department of the tax office that got me into troubles (tax debts).
I could safe most of my wealth into crypto and im looking to leave this hell hole.

What country is recommended. Turkey? Russia?

 

[wellington]

If you are under investigation it’s better to deal with that first.

Even if you leave (flee?) they merely put a extradition request in and even if you put your assets into crypto they seize it by force - and forfeiture it to the state and liquidate (usually at a loss).

 

[ryanreed]

If you are under investigation it’s better to deal with that first.

Even if you leave (flee?) they merely put a extradition request in and even if you put your assets into crypto they seize it by force - and forfeiture it to the state and liquidate (usually at a loss).

I have a VAT examped buisness (even got a cert) that I dont need to colelct VAT. Had an audit and they said I need to collect VAT for the past 5 years. My profit margin is 10%. VAT 19%. So the last 5 years I had my company are poof, and the next 5-10 years of work go into collectiong th VAT + fees. Already lost in court. (they claim its my fault but i got the Cert!!!) I put all my money into non seizable BTC. Some countries dont do extraditions. Like turkey dont extradite their own citizen-

 

[wellington]

I have a VAT examped buisness (even got a cert) that I dont need to colelct VAT. Had an audit and they said I need to collect VAT for the past 5 years. My profit margin is 10%. VAT 19%. So the last 5 years I had my company are poof, and the next 5-10 years of work go into collectiong th VAT + fees. Already lost in court. (they claim its my fault but i got the Cert!!!) I put all my money into non seizable BTC. Some countries dont do extraditions. Like turkey dont extradite their own citizen-

I can't comment on you trying to avoid extradition, i will note, sometimes countries don't have formal processes, but have informal processes (revoke visa and deport to home country).

So i think you are being foolish if you believe this is a route you can persue.

As for the outstanding tax, the state has a monopoly on violence, you just have to contest, or pay up.

Then you can re-think your choices.

 

[ryanreed]

I can't comment on you trying to avoid extradition, i will note, sometimes countries don't have formal processes, but have informal processes (revoke visa and deport to home country).

So i think you are being foolish if you believe this is a route you can persue.

As for the outstanding tax, the state has a monopoly on violence, you just have to contest, or pay up.

Then you can re-think your choices.

Im 35 years old. I dont want to work the next 10-15 years for debs that were not my fault, but that of a stupid tax department. Calling bankruptcy also doesnt work in this case.

Turkey doesnt follow extradition for their own citizen.

 

[wellington]

Im 35 years old. I dont want to work the next 10-15 years for debs that were not my fault, but that of a stupid tax department. Calling bankruptcy also doesnt work in this case.

Turkey doesnt follow extradition for their own citizen.

Well.. you won't get responses here that support your aspirations, as it then makes the person complicit in a criminal conspiracy.

As for 'its not fair' -> that's life. Suck it up (buttercup).

 

[Sols]

If you're small fish, you can go hide from Germany almost anywhere outside of EU/EEA. Turkey would work since you're a citizen. TRNC (Northern Cyprus) might be another option.

But suppose you're looking outside of Turkey.

If your tax debt is significant, the German tax authority will try to pursue you for some time. That's when you run into unofficial deportations, as @wellington mentioned. If Germany applies a bit of pressure and you aren't worth the risk/effort to your new host country, revoking a visa on "grounds of suspicion" is something many countries won't think twice about.

If you obtain citizenship, it's much less likely to happen. But a part of any citizenship application is you have no conviction for serious crimes or you have atoned for your sins. So if you get a CBI passport somewhere and it turns out you lied when you said you have never done anything criminal (such as tax fraud), that's grounds for passport revocation in the future. But if your tax crime in Germany is relatively small and if you've embedded yourself in your new host country, that's not very likely to happen.

A course of action you might want to take is to leave, set your business up some place new (maybe UAE), and leverage your new, more beneficial tax position to increase your margins. Then use some of that margin to gradually pay back the VAT you owe. Many tax authorities are willing to negotiate and work out a payment plan.

Being able to comfortably renew that EU passport and travel to/within EU may be beneficial, making it worthwhile to not have an standing warrant for your arrest in Germany.

 

[ryanreed]

If you're small fish, you can go hide from Germany almost anywhere outside of EU/EEA. Turkey would work since you're a citizen. TRNC (Northern Cyprus) might be another option.

But suppose you're looking outside of Turkey.

If your tax debt is significant, the German tax authority will try to pursue you for some time. That's when you run into unofficial deportations, as @wellington mentioned. If Germany applies a bit of pressure and you aren't worth the risk/effort to your new host country, revoking a visa on "grounds of suspicion" is something many countries won't think twice about.

If you obtain citizenship, it's much less likely to happen. But a part of any citizenship application is you have no conviction for serious crimes or you have atoned for your sins. So if you get a CBI passport somewhere and it turns out you lied when you said you have never done anything criminal (such as tax fraud), that's grounds for passport revocation in the future. But if your tax crime in Germany is relatively small and if you've embedded yourself in your new host country, that's not very likely to happen.

A course of action you might want to take is to leave, set your business up some place new (maybe UAE), and leverage your new, more beneficial tax position to increase your margins. Then use some of that margin to gradually pay back the VAT you owe. Many tax authorities are willing to negotiate and work out a payment plan.

Being able to comfortably renew that EU passport and travel to/within EU may be beneficial, making it worthwhile to not have an standing warrant for your arrest in Germany.

Sadly the whole situation made me very depressive and suicidal to get fucked for something your not responsible for, for decades to come.
Im not a big fish by any means. I currently only got the issue that I have huge tax debts in germany + money laundering case because I put my money in non sizeable crypto.
Even if I want to stay here, I would need to work of the tax debts for a decade or more and I cant just declare bankruptcy.

Thats why I look for others places. Since i got a turkish citizenship, shall I go to turkey? Just need "travel tips"

 

[Sols]

Im not a big fish by any means. I currently only got the issue that I have huge tax debts in germany + money laundering case because I put my money in non sizeable crypto.
Even if I want to stay here, I would need to work of the tax debts for a decade or more and I cant just declare bankruptcy.

If the tax debt is small, I don't think you'll have much trouble paying it back in the future.

The money laundering charges are a problem. They will follow you for a long time. You're probably looking at around/at least 10 years of not being able to set foot in Germany and any travel to EU/EEA is risky. If you are found guilty in absentia, the duration is much longer.

After you've left, you can try to negotiate with the government to drop the money laundering charges if you pay back the VAT debt within a certain number of years. Have a lawyer help you do the negotiations. This might be very hard or impossible, since you've taken such active steps towards hiding your money and fleeing.

Since i got a turkish citizenship, shall I go to turkey? Just need "travel tips"

I can't tell you what to do. But it's no secret that Turkey and TRNC are home to many Turkish citizens with refused extradition requests from EU countries.

Just think through the consequences of doing that. Yes, you can probably evade your tax and money laundering charges. On the other hand, if you don't work towards making things right, you may never be able to return to EU/EEA again. And not all trips to EU/EEA are intentional. Let's say you're flying Istanbul to New York, and the plane has to make an emergency landing in Germany/EU. Herzlich willkommen in Deutschland.

If you go to Turkey, you can live as a free person. If you pay your financial debts to Germany, you'll be a slightly poorer but still free person in Turkey. And if the Germans agree to drop your charges after you pay back your tax debt, you will come out the other end with slightly less money in your pocket but a free person, free to travel Germany/the EU again.

 

[daniels27]

Paying will be cheaper. Trust me. Inflation is high and the money you pay today is peanuts tomorrow.

The questions are
1. Was it a GmbH or you personally
2. Why was the certificate not honoured

I may have a guy that could help you with the negotiations.

 

[daniels27]

Could you maybe shed some more light into this matter? VAT exemption is mainly for education purposes:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/__4.htmlI doubt that this applies to you.

In all other cases, I highly suspect that you were actually making taxable supplies but did not charge VAT. It must be B2C as in B2B nobody would want to be exempt. You did not resell EU goods as you would be able to recover the input VAT in this case, effectively leading to a loss of only 1.9%. You also did not import yourself at proper value as also in this case you would be able to recover import VAT. Hence, you have been selling goods/services from outside EU to EU customers without charging them. Now comes the interesting part, would your non EU supplier have supplied the EU customers directly, they would have to pay VAT themselves too (IOSS). Hence you actually sold goods at a 9% loss.

In any case, even if you don't want to hear it, I personally would work with a lawyer or directly with the courts and try to make a deal, it is the cheaper way in the long run.