German Crypto Trader looking for a new home country to have a clean but lower taxation

[calif89]

Hi,

living in Germany right now and having a german citizenship. I paid my Taxes for the past years but they eat so much into my networth that I will never reach my goal of 7 figures.

Now I was looking into Tax models for me to move out from germany to another country together with my little family.

Important is:

• Mandatory: I want to keep it clean. No illegal stuff. No sketchy stuff if possible. No Dubai... Lots of countries advantages seem to be based on the fact that government don't take the prosecution of crypto tax evasion seriously... Nothing I wanna count on. I am happily paying some taxes, I don't have an Issue with that, as long as I can sleep and dont run into the risk that my daughter has a dad in jail ... I also want to have the option to move back to germany in 1-2-3-4 years (who knows), as I have family here and a sick father which is more important to me than everything else. So this is crucial... I have read that it's far more easy to do that, when you were paying taxes somewhere else and they can give you a tax-certification which proofs you paid taxes there... So I was thinking about Cyprus/Malta/Estonia? Maybe Thailand? I dont know.
• Nice to have: I wanna stay flexible with my time if possible... I want to travel through south east asia and visit family and friends living there. I wanna spend max 2-3 months per year in germany. Maybe even less. I will give up everything in germany besides my bank account (as I paid out 6 figures multiple times without a problem and I got told this is a good relationship I should value and keep)

What countries can you guys recommend?

 

[clemens]

According to the following thread you can trade such tax free in Cyprus

Question - Tax-free day trading with a Cyprus company. How does that work?

Hello Guys, If I become a non-dom tax resident in Cyprus and I open a company there for day trading, I read that stocks, equities, and securities trading are tax-free (that's not the case for Forex). My question is if I trade futures (Not CFD'S) like S&P 500, The German Dax, Nasdaq, or...

www.offshorecorptalk.com

 

[Paul Tudor Jones]

According to the following thread you can trade such tax free in Cyprus

Question - Tax-free day trading with a Cyprus company. How does that work?

Hello Guys, If I become a non-dom tax resident in Cyprus and I open a company there for day trading, I read that stocks, equities, and securities trading are tax-free (that's not the case for Forex). My question is if I trade futures (Not CFD'S) like S&P 500, The German Dax, Nasdaq, or...

www.offshorecorptalk.com

100% that.

Save yourself a giant headache trying to comply with random UAE rules that change every week, and just move to Cyprus or Malta -> enjoy practical zero tax. Open offshore co anywhere you want and use it to charge your B2C clients. these countries don't really care nor check.

 

[clemens]

enjoy practical zero tax. Open offshore co anywhere you want and use it to charge your B2C clients. these countries don't really care nor check.

how do you achieve that? it's impossible?

 

[Alonzo]

I also want to have the option to move back to germany in 1-2-3-4 years (who knows)

Quite risky if you consider moving back to Germany after like 1 or 2 years. Tax man can say that you fled to pay little to no tax (Cyprus as I see) and possibly ask you to pay german income tax since the day of your departure.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Quite risky if you consider moving back to Germany after like 1 or 2 years. Tax man can say that you fled to pay little to no tax (Cyprus as I see) and possibly ask you to pay german income tax since the day of your departure.

this wouldn't hold in court if he cuts all ties w Germany at time of departure

 

[Semso]

this wouldn't hold in court if he cuts all ties w Germany at time of departure

I went about a similar issue to a tax dude / lawyer and got told that with near 100% certainty it will be questioned by the little tax man.
They will look for the smallest attackable point such as ties to family and cause troubles and headache. As you says, in court it can still be won but what are the chances? I wonder about that.

 

[calif89]

Quite risky if you consider moving back to Germany after like 1 or 2 years. Tax man can say that you fled to pay little to no tax (Cyprus as I see) and possibly ask you to pay german income tax since the day of your departure.

My tax lawyer told me if you pay actual tax somewhere else (double taxation treaty country especially) and cut all ties including apartment in Germany, you cannot be taxed afterwards as it’s clear you tried to build a business somewhere else

I went about a similar issue to a tax dude / lawyer and got told that with near 100% certainty it will be questioned by the little tax man.
They will look for the smallest attackable point such as ties to family and cause troubles and headache. As you says, in court it can still be won but what are the chances? I wonder about that.

There are relatively clear definitions. If you are abroad for 2 years and can proof it fully, you’re not taxable

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

They will look for the smallest attackable point such as ties to family and cause troubles and headache. As you says, in court it can still be won but what are the chances? I wonder about that.

Chances are very high if he totally cuts his ties. I cannot be made responsible for where some random people I happen to be bood related to decide to live.

*I* left, *I* got no bank acc in the country anymore, *I* havent been here in 3 years, etc

 

[Fred]

I went about a similar issue to a tax dude / lawyer and got told that with near 100% certainty it will be questioned by the little tax man.

Correct. At least in Central Europe High Tax Countries like Germany.

They will look for the smallest attackable point such as ties to family and cause troubles and headache. As you says, in court it can still be won but what are the chances? I wonder about that.

Exactly and this would be in the mentioned scenario the German Bank Account which is still kept and worst case even used to cash out. That's your dead penalty in Germany. They use this to claim you had still a Nexus in Germany and talking about 7 figures they will do it for sure.

Don't bother and do it right if you even do it at all.

 

[bizman]

If you cut all ties, close your bank account in Germany and just move away for not coming back again they can't do nothing about it. If you stay out of the country for the next 15 years, your case is forgotten by then.

If you just relocate to a country which isn't willing to work with the German tax authorities because of certain tax rules, you are home free. Switzerland is such a country, if your case hasn't been brought to court before you moved out, Switzerland will refuse to let them do anything further!

 

[itinventor]

You can go to Portugal. And have at least a 10-year tax exemption.

 

[SARAH22]

Hi,

living in Germany right now and having a german citizenship. I paid my Taxes for the past years but they eat so much into my networth that I will never reach my goal of 7 figures.

Now I was looking into Tax models for me to move out from germany to another country together with my little family.

Important is:

• Mandatory: I want to keep it clean. No illegal stuff. No sketchy stuff if possible. No Dubai... Lots of countries advantages seem to be based on the fact that government don't take the prosecution of crypto tax evasion seriously... Nothing I wanna count on. I am happily paying some taxes, I don't have an Issue with that, as long as I can sleep and dont run into the risk that my daughter has a dad in jail ... I also want to have the option to move back to germany in 1-2-3-4 years (who knows), as I have family here and a sick father which is more important to me than everything else. So this is crucial... I have read that it's far more easy to do that, when you were paying taxes somewhere else and they can give you a tax-certification which proofs you paid taxes there... So I was thinking about Cyprus/Malta/Estonia? Maybe Thailand? I dont know.
• Nice to have: I wanna stay flexible with my time if possible... I want to travel through south east asia and visit family and friends living there. I wanna spend max 2-3 months per year in germany. Maybe even less. I will give up everything in germany besides my bank account (as I paid out 6 figures multiple times without a problem and I got told this is a good relationship I should value and keep)

What countries can you guys recommend?

Bulgaria , is the best , with all the inconveniences about language,

 

[zzzzzz]

You can go to Portugal. And have at least a 10-year tax exemption.

Are foreign capital gains (stocks, derivatives, crypto, fx...) in personal account tax free under NHR regime? Where is the line between active vs. passive income for a trader/investor?

 

[calif89]

Correct. At least in Central Europe High Tax Countries like Germany.

Exactly and this would be in the mentioned scenario the German Bank Account which is still kept and worst case even used to cash out. That's your dead penalty in Germany. They use this to claim you had still a Nexus in Germany and talking about 7 figures they will do it for sure.

Don't bother and do it right if you even do it at all.

Fair enough! Better safe than sorry! I will give up my Bank Account to be sure.
It's literally the only tie I have to the Country.

Btw - how would that work if I pay my taxes in another country with double-tax-treaty?

Let's say I pay my taxes in malta for two yrs and come back for whatever reason and they would demand from me I pay taxes for the past two years and they would win in front of a judge with this demand... would i just need to pay additionally the full amount of taxes i would have paid in germany ON TOP of the already paid taxes in malta?