Legally cash out $1+m in crypto - what are the options?

[hallcall]

Long time lurker, finally signed up, the other crypto related cashing out post inspired me to post here as well. If too similar Feel free to just close.

Following: made over $1m (closer to 1.5) in crypto. Some of it trading, some with making NFTs, some with making coins. Nothing illegal, but strictly by the law, token sales are a grey zone so if possible wouldn't want to share it with authorities.

Producing a trading history is going to be very hard. I'm big on privacy and properly separated wallets, and created new ones for each purpose.

I am looking to turn this internet money into real money and am researching what my options are. I am sadly also resident in a country that taxes on global income (not the US).

From what I gathered:

Option 1: hide it. Find an offshore bank in a country that's not part of CRS. Cons of this is very obviously tax evasion

Option 2: establish corp in a offshore country, funnel money into business somehow

Option 3: move countries, establish tax residency in a country like Hong Kong or Thailand that doesn't tax on foreign sourced income. Justify that selling of crypto happens abroad so it stays tax free in this jurisdiction, or try to file as capital gains somewhere where there is no capital gains tax. I'm still tax liable in the country that I am a global tax resident though.

Option 4: find some scheme like gifting it to someone in a country without gift tax, then use that somehow

Option 5: trickle the money slowly out, use to pay for daily expenses. Can't use the money for investments like buying property though.

Option 6: call a tax lawyer and make a deal to just pay 50% of everything to the tax office, be done with it. Well obviously wouldn't wanna do that if possible. 1.5m is life changing money, 750k not so much.


I am in contact with tax lawyers from different countries and am actively researching myself what can be done, including giving up residence in the country with global tax completely.

I am also not sure if bank accounts in offshore countries that require initial deposit of something like 500k are even possible as an option because I'm not liquid.

I may be able to find some records of stuff like sales of tokens, but very likely not for everything.

Curious if people here have some ideas. What would you do?

 

[JackAlabama]

Long time lurker, finally signed up, the other crypto related cashing out post inspired me to post here as well. If too similar Feel free to just close.

Following: made over $1m (closer to 1.5) in crypto. Some of it trading, some with making NFTs, some with making coins. Nothing illegal, but strictly by the law, token sales are a grey zone so if possible wouldn't want to share it with authorities.

Producing a trading history is going to be very hard. I'm big on privacy and properly separated wallets, and created new ones for each purpose.

I am looking to turn this internet money into real money and am researching what my options are. I am sadly also resident in a country that taxes on global income (not the US).

From what I gathered:

Option 1: hide it. Find an offshore bank in a country that's not part of CRS. Cons of this is very obviously tax evasion

Option 2: establish corp in a offshore country, funnel money into business somehow

Option 3: move countries, establish tax residency in a country like Hong Kong or Thailand that doesn't tax on foreign sourced income. Justify that selling of crypto happens abroad so it stays tax free in this jurisdiction, or try to file as capital gains somewhere where there is no capital gains tax. I'm still tax liable in the country that I am a global tax resident though.

Option 4: find some scheme like gifting it to someone in a country without gift tax, then use that somehow

Option 5: trickle the money slowly out, use to pay for daily expenses. Can't use the money for investments like buying property though.

Option 6: call a tax lawyer and make a deal to just pay 50% of everything to the tax office, be done with it. Well obviously wouldn't wanna do that if possible. 1.5m is life changing money, 750k not so much.


I am in contact with tax lawyers from different countries and am actively researching myself what can be done, including giving up residence in the country with global tax completely.

I am also not sure if bank accounts in offshore countries that require initial deposit of something like 500k are even possible as an option because I'm not liquid.

I may be able to find some records of stuff like sales of tokens, but very likely not for everything.

Curious if people here have some ideas. What would you do?

looks like we are def back where people making bank on crypto.

this has been a hot topic here in 2020/21. Id suggest you read thru the different threads of these years.

selling own coins means issuing illegal securities, thats gonna be an interesting one.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I don’t understand why one should exchange something valuable (crypto) for fiat, which is guaranteed to lose value over time. Just swap everything for btc and enjoy.

 

[hallcall]

I can’t buy property with bitcoin, pay off a mortgage or access any of the things that require the traditional finance world like big purchases.

(Personally I don’t believe in crypto anymore and want out while it’s still pumping)

 

[happyjohn]

Option 1: hide it. Find an offshore bank in a country that's not part of CRS. Cons of this is very obviously tax evasion

forget it, if you deal with 500K you go to jail faster than you get the money to the so called offshore account which isn't anonymous!

Option 2: establish corp in a offshore country, funnel money into business somehow

Can work in some situations, risky depending on who your country of residency is.

Option 3: move countries, establish tax residency in a country like Hong Kong or Thailand that doesn't tax on foreign sourced income. Justify that selling of crypto happens abroad so it stays tax free in this jurisdiction, or try to file as capital gains somewhere where there is no capital gains tax. I'm still tax liable in the country that I am a global tax resident though.

If you are willing to relocate and give up your current residency that is the best to do, so you stay legal and avoid a lot of headache and expenses to tax lawyers.

What country are you residency of right now?

Option 4: find some scheme like gifting it to someone in a country without gift tax, then use that somehow

can work.

Option 5: trickle the money slowly out, use to pay for daily expenses. Can't use the money for investments like buying property though.

Depending on which country you live chances are 50 / 50 to get caught, if they do, they will take everything from you. Tax authorities are like the Mafia, they don't stop because you say sorry.

Option 6: call a tax lawyer and make a deal to just pay 50% of everything to the tax office, be done with it. Well obviously wouldn't wanna do that if possible. 1.5m is life changing money, 750k not so much.

That would be easy, but consider relocating and get our of the country you are in now if you can to a better place with low to no tax on such income.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I can’t buy property with bitcoin,

Yes you can. Want to buy mine?

pay off a mortgage

Don’t make a mortgage in the first place.

or access any of the things that require the traditional finance world like big purchases.

Houses, airplanes and yachts can all easily be bought (or rented) with crypto today.

(Personally I don’t believe in crypto

you don’t “believe” in crypto. Crypto is math. You believe in fiat, by definition.

 

[hallcall]

Thanks for the thoughts!

Can work in some situations, risky depending on who your country of residency is.

Can you elaborate on the risks of establishing a corp offshore somewhere and have the corp be the owner of the crypto?
Are you referring to moving the funds to the corp in the first place?

forget it, if you deal with 500K you go to jail faster than you get the money to the so called offshore account which isn't anonymous!

yeah I figured as much. And why I want to do this as legal as possible and not go into this direction.

If you are willing to relocate and give up your current residency that is the best to do, so you stay legal and avoid a lot of headache and expenses to tax lawyers.
What country are you residency of right now?

Country is Japan, giving up residency is a last resort option if nothing better can be found. Best would be to find some tax treaty or taxation rule in where taxation falls on the other country, which could then be more favorable, but talking to a local tax lawyer about this currently.

 

[jafo]

(Personally I don’t believe in crypto anymore

I'm going to split my answer into two (2) parts!

The first is a tongue-lashing!
The second is a solid legal solution that requires you to work.

I don't have ANYTHING in terms of fairy tales, nor do I sell ANY services. Euphemistically speaking, I can show you the "gym," but you have to go there and train and lift the weights yourself if you want to lose weight (read tax burden)! Nobody else can do it for you!

(1) You are at a MAJOR crossroads in your life! MAJOR! The Universe will NOT forget nor FORGIVE your ingratitude!

You deny, REJECT, and SHUN the vehicle/being that earned you 1.5M

vs.

while swearing allegiance to "dastardly unproductive and useless gang members printing colored paper who hallucinate they OWN everything purchased with their monopoly colored paper?!!!

Do you NOT see a problem in your thinking?

This is a textbook case of abused wife syndrome!
---------------

(2) Now the solution I successfully apply daily for me: Cashout Crypto with Banks

even when in

on my way to Akihabara.

You have Akihabara right next to you. Why don't you use it?

 

[DSoz]

Go to UAE and cash out via many of those OTC desks and buy property in cash or directly via crypto, get a golden visa and bank account, maybe sell after few months and get the cash into your bank with the proof of funds as sale of property

 

[ketoz]

Go to UAE and cash out via many of those OTC desks and buy property in cash or directly via crypto, get a golden visa and bank account, maybe sell after few months and get the cash into your bank with the proof of funds as sale of property

That will work short term, but cause issues long term. He will have zero income to his name and suddenly 1M in cash from the sale of property.

 

[hlepic211]

Any bank (including crypto-friendly) wants SoF docs. If you don't have SoF docs you can't just send a wire from Kraken for 1m$. Solution - photoshop your SoF according to the wallets you find and transactions on them or incorporate and find someone you can invoice (send them USDT-> get EUR to corp account).

Don't go for Dubai because even if you manage to do it you will get your funds trapped inside the country.

 

[diatessaron]

Producing a trading history is going to be very hard.

Very easy to do, do you have any NFTs you're selling?

 

[ketoz]

Very easy to do, do you have any NFTs you're selling?

Thats like selling fifty 1995 Honda Civics for €20k each. Imagine their face when they launch an investigation against him.

 

[wellington]

Option 3: move countries, establish tax residency in a country like Hong Kong or Thailand that doesn't tax on foreign sourced income. Justify that selling of crypto happens abroad so it stays tax free in this jurisdiction, or try to file as capital gains somewhere where there is no capital gains tax. I'm still tax liable in the country that I am a global tax resident though.

Thailand charges tax on crypto as they consider it to be in Thailand even if overseas... with CRS they will indict for tax evasion.

 

[Mercury]

Thailand charges tax on crypto as they consider it to be in Thailand even if overseas... with CRS they will indict for tax evasion.

Nope. We've already discussed this topic.

Crypto proceeds held offshore are not taxable, only if remitted in Thailand.

https://sherrings.com/cryptocurrency-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

[banafinfodafuggiano]

Any bank (including crypto-friendly) wants SoF docs. If you don't have SoF docs you can't just send a wire from Kraken for 1m$. Solution - photoshop your SoF according to the wallets you find and transactions on them or incorporate and find someone you can invoice (send them USDT-> get EUR to corp account).

Don't go for Dubai because even if you manage to do it you will get your funds trapped inside the country.

Kraken and Government agencies have AI tools to detect if a document has been photoshopped.
I had a friend who worked for Immigration in a 1st world country and they scan your documents to check if they have been photoshopped. If you provide the PDF version of it, they can catch it even faster.


My best advice is to convert everything in BTC and USDT, and cash out those money over time on 20+ different exchanges ($1000 a month cash out on each exchange = $20,000 usd a month) using a tax residency in a country that doesn't tax crypto at all.

 

[hlepic211]

Kraken and Government agencies have AI tools to detect if a document has been photoshopped.
I had a friend who worked for Immigration in a 1st world country and they scan your documents to check if they have been photoshopped. If you provide the PDF version of it, they can catch it even faster.


My best advice is to convert everything in BTC and USDT, and cash out those money over time on 20+ different exchanges ($1000 a month cash out on each exchange = $20,000 usd a month) using a tax residency in a country that doesn't tax crypto at all.

You're talking about the PDF file. Just make sure you print and scan the file after you photoshop it (to remove metadata) and you're good.

 

[diatessaron]

Thats like selling fifty 1995 Honda Civics for €20k each. Imagine their face when they launch an investigation against him.

You see it as a 95 Honda Civic, there are people who see it as 500k Lambos. In an imaginary world where he does it right it will work. But I don't really know, I've never done anything like this. I'm a very good boy.

 

[yngmind]

Go to UAE and cash out via many of those OTC desks and buy property in cash or directly via crypto, get a golden visa and bank account, maybe sell after few months and get the cash into your bank with the proof of funds as sale of property

In Dubai, it's nearly impossible to sell a property now at the market price, and once you sell, they will ask for proof of funds.

What we do now is consult you on tax evasion and money laundering. You made this money while you were a Japanese resident, so you're supposed to pay taxes there.

You had to plan everything before, but there are lots of ways to do that for sure, $1.5M is not a big deal. It's not $30 mils

 

[Mercury]

In Dubai it's nearly impossible to sell a property now at the market price, plus once you sell, they will ask you for the proof of funds

So if you say you initially bought your property with crypto, service arranged via reputable local RE services/developer, what is the outcome? Bank account closed, whipped and sent to jail?