MALTA/DUBAI/HUNGARY/CYPRUS - whats the best play in this scenario?

[euzato]

hello guys, whats the best thing to do in this scenario.

Let`s say there is a person with 6 figures in crypto and want to cash it out (get it legal in a bankaccount) with the lowest tax possible without moving out of europe (worst case is dubai lol ). There is no hestitation to go and live there for a year or some aslong everything is legal and i dont pay 40-50% tax but the "person" would maybe move back after 1 year or something.


In Malta when im not mistaken you can cash it out for free (privat)if you hold if for a longer period (how long is the period?) would it be possible to just go there wait till u have non dom status and then cashout 6 figures in few batches? since it not via a company i wouldnt need to pay income tax or would it be better to open a company pay these 5% tax and have my peace from law enforcment.

In Hungary there is a 15% flat tax and thats it still at little bit high imo. No sea/sun and less "expats" or "nomads".

cyprus tax would be 12.5 % + you could do some "shady" stuff with north cyprus to setup a company there and basically pay 0 tax cause there is no "enforcment" there. but prefer legal way and inncer peace good things: sun/ sea / nomads

dubai: 0% tax - big playground but far away from friends family etc.

What would you do? is there some better options? i heard if you get nondom in malta and you have income out of malta there is no tax. could setup a bank account outside of europe (swiss/cayman/bahams etc) and receive funds there?


Share your knowledge with me, thanks for your time,


stay wealthy.

 

[Marshal]

You can also add Germany to your list. If you move there you will be able to cash out your crypto at 0% tax. Crypto gains are tax-free if the holding period is more than one year. So you will have to be in Germany and hodl for a year.

Crypto Tax Guide Germany 2024 [Kryptowährung Steuer]​

 

[euzato]

You can also add Germany to your list. If you move there you will be able to cash out your crypto at 0% tax. Crypto gains are tax-free if the holding period is more than one year. So you will have to be in Germany and hodl for a year.

Crypto Tax Guide Germany 2024 [Kryptowährung Steuer]​

thanks but no, germany as a society is at an all time low. just out of curiousity, if you hodl USDT or other stables more then a year will it still be tax free? cheers!

hello guys, whats the best thing to do in this scenario.

Let`s say there is a person with 6 figures in crypto and want to cash it out (get it legal in a bankaccount) with the lowest tax possible without moving out of europe (worst case is dubai lol ). There is no hestitation to go and live there for a year or some aslong everything is legal and i dont pay 40-50% tax but the "person" would maybe move back after 1 year or something.


In Malta when im not mistaken you can cash it out for free (privat)if you hold if for a longer period (how long is the period?) would it be possible to just go there wait till u have non dom status and then cashout 6 figures in few batches? since it not via a company i wouldnt need to pay income tax or would it be better to open a company pay these 5% tax and have my peace from law enforcment.

In Hungary there is a 15% flat tax and thats it still at little bit high imo. No sea/sun and less "expats" or "nomads".

cyprus tax would be 12.5 % + you could do some "shady" stuff with north cyprus to setup a company there and basically pay 0 tax cause there is no "enforcment" there. but prefer legal way and inncer peace good things: sun/ sea / nomads

dubai: 0% tax - big playground but far away from friends family etc.

What would you do? is there some better options? i heard if you get nondom in malta and you have income out of malta there is no tax. could setup a bank account outside of europe (swiss/cayman/bahams etc) and receive funds there?


Share your knowledge with me, thanks for your time,


stay wealthy.

note*** the cryptos got already converted from cryptos to stables. maybe it is good/bad for the juresdiction?

 

[toums]

You can also add Germany to your list. If you move there you will be able to cash out your crypto at 0% tax. Crypto gains are tax-free if the holding period is more than one year. So you will have to be in Germany and hodl for a year.

Crypto Tax Guide Germany 2024 [Kryptowährung Steuer]​

PORTUGAL too..

But forget to cash-out huge amount of money from crypto in PT banks.. It's still middle age country for banking and not crypto-friendly banking. (of topic, but you still have LOT of place/ multinational companies where you can only pay with Portuguese debit/credit cards.. the machines doesn't work for oversea cards.. crazy..).

You have to separate WHERE you are tax resident for crypto AND where you will cash out them. Probably not the same country(ies).

6 figures (especially if it's a low 6 figures) is not enough from my point of view to do a crazy/complicated scheme :

In Europe :
- You move in Portugal (but if you have other income, it will be taxed quite high, as you cannot apply anymore for NHR tax scheme)
- Germany , but same s**t for other incomes
- Malta, even if there is no official law for how long you need to hold the crypto assets to be tax free, but i never heard till now an individual challenged by maltese tax authority for that, till you pay your 5K flat tax per year and dont remit the money in Malta (so no cashing-out there!). Anyway Malta is not either famous to be smooth for banking, especially for crypto cash-out

Outside EU :
- UAE, no tax no blabla, but you have to stay there minimum 90days a year (180days more appreciated probably) and cost of life/ expenses of course higher
- Any countries without income / capital gain tax OR territorial tax scheme countries (Thailand for now, Philippines, Malaysia...)

---- FOR BANKING ---- Depend where is your citizenship, where you live, what you can prove or not, which ties you can have etc, which amount more precisely we talked etc.. Talking about Cayman islands for low 6 figures, i think it's a joke. For banking ideas/countries you can try the 'research' option in the forum, you have plenty of discussion and experiences.

In any case there is NO general reply, it depend case by case.

 

[euzato]

PORTUGAL too..
But forget to cash-out huge amount of money from crypto in PT banks.. It's still middle age country for banking (of topic, but you still have LOT of place/ multinational companies where you can only pay with Portuguese debit/credit cards.. the machines doesn't work for oversea cards.. crazy..).

You have to separate WHERE you are tax resident for crypto AND where you will cash out them. Probably not the same country(ies)

yes, which combo works best maybe malta tax resident and bank account switzerland/UAE/Bahamas/Cayman island no?

PORTUGAL too..

But forget to cash-out huge amount of money from crypto in PT banks.. It's still middle age country for banking and not crypto-friendly banking. (of topic, but you still have LOT of place/ multinational companies where you can only pay with Portuguese debit/credit cards.. the machines doesn't work for oversea cards.. crazy..).

You have to separate WHERE you are tax resident for crypto AND where you will cash out them. Probably not the same country(ies).

6 figures (especially if it's a low 6 figures) is not enough from my point of view to do a crazy/complicated scheme :

In Europe :
- You move in Portugal (but if you have other income, it will be taxed quite high, as you cannot apply anymore for NHR tax scheme)
- Germany , but same s**t for other incomes
- Malta, even if there is no official law for how long you need to hold the crypto assets to be tax free, but i never heard till now an individual challenged by maltese tax authority for that, till you pay your 5K flat tax per year and dont remit the money in Malta (so no cashing-out there!). Anyway Malta is not either famous to be smooth for banking, especially for crypto cash-out

Outside EU :
- UAE, no tax no blabla, but you have to stay there minimum 90days a year (180days more appreciated probably) and cost of life/ expenses of course higher
- Any countries without income / capital gain tax OR territorial tax scheme countries (Thailand for now, Philippines, Malaysia...)

---- FOR BANKING ---- Depend where is your citizenship, where you live, what you can prove or not, which ties you can have etc, which amount more precisely we talked etc.. Talking about Cayman islands for low 6 figures, i think it's a joke. For banking ideas/countries you can try the 'research' option in the forum, you have plenty of discussion and experiences.

In any case there is NO general reply, it depend case by case.

thanks for your edited reply, just a question, what do you mean at the "for banking" section. why is it imporatant where i have a citizenship and what to prove? can you eloborate on that. im in the heart of europe.

 

[jesuschrist]

Ranking countries for this is more like a scale, the lower you go the less you have to pay but harder to cashout crypto.

- Switzerland, Liechtenstein: Are the bests if you are willing to pay their price
- Hungary: The best in the EU imo, very stable banks, for 15% you can cash out even 9 figures € without difficult questions
- Bulgaria: Cheaper than Hungary, for 10% you can cashout maybe 7-8 figures but the banks are more risky
- Cyprus
- Germany: Only capital gains free if you purchased all your crypto, if you made it in trading or something forget it
- Portugal
- Malta: Kinda cheap but good luck finding banks
- SEA: Can be almost free, kinda grey zone, easy to withdraw 1000 $ but other than that forget it
- Dubai: Free but be happy if you can cashout 6 figures

Yes you can do sh1t like P2P and other things but if you want to do it properly with banks this is it.
Of course this list is for EU citizens, if you are from the US just do it in the US, for Asians maybe Singapore or Caribbean is an option.

But some people are crazy, they are okay going to Dubai and SEA to cashout 6 figures and paying 20% in service and conversion fees,
while they refuse to pay 10-15% in the EU with max 100 € on banking fees.

 

[CyberZero]

The cryptos got already converted from cryptos to stables. maybe it is good/bad for the juresdiction?

This might be bad from the perspective of your home country.
A lot of countries treat crypto to crypto the same as crypto to fiat, in this case you would have sold in your home country and tax would be due.
Also make sure there is no personal exit tax and some countries have a minimum amount of years you should stay away, some have a clear law about this and some just have interpretations from past tax rulings.
Just so you have a clear picture of the risk if your going to be away for so short.

 

[toums]

Ranking countries for this is more like a scale, the lower you go the less you have to pay but harder to cashout crypto.

- Switzerland, Liechtenstein: Are the bests if you are willing to pay their price
- Hungary: The best in the EU imo, very stable banks, for 15% you can cash out even 9 figures € without difficult questions
- Bulgaria: Cheaper than Hungary, for 10% you can cashout maybe 7-8 figures but the banks are more risky
- Cyprus
- Germany: Only capital gains free if you purchased all your crypto, if you made it in trading or something forget it
- Portugal
- Malta: Kinda cheap but good luck finding banks
- SEA: Can be almost free, kinda grey zone, easy to withdraw 1000 $ but other than that forget it
- Dubai: Free but be happy if you can cashout 6 figures

Yes you can do sh1t like P2P and other things but if you want to do it properly with banks this is it.
Of course this list is for EU citizens, if you are from the US just do it in the US, for Asians maybe Singapore or Caribbean is an option.

But some people are crazy, they are okay going to Dubai and SEA to cashout 6 figures and paying 20% in service and conversion fees,
while they refuse to pay 10-15% in the EU with max 100 € on banking fees.

Quite agree with you.

I can add also you can be tax resident in UAE or SEA or Portugal and cash-out tax free in Switzerland / Liechtenstein or central europe (HU / SK for example). Of course harder to open bank accounts there now, as more regulation, but if you already own some bank accounts in these countries previously, still working quite good..

I was thinking to add one additional bank account in Bulgaria (never tried). Do you personally have some experiences for that?
If DSK (OTP group) work the same as they do in Hungary or Slovakia (now CSOB...), it can be also a Plan C, D or E..

 

[Cloudbanck]

Ranking countries for this is more like a scale, the lower you go the less you have to pay but harder to cashout crypto.

- Switzerland, Liechtenstein: Are the bests if you are willing to pay their price
- Hungary: The best in the EU imo, very stable banks, for 15% you can cash out even 9 figures € without difficult questions
- Bulgaria: Cheaper than Hungary, for 10% you can cashout maybe 7-8 figures but the banks are more risky
- Cyprus
- Germany: Only capital gains free if you purchased all your crypto, if you made it in trading or something forget it
- Portugal
- Malta: Kinda cheap but good luck finding banks
- SEA: Can be almost free, kinda grey zone, easy to withdraw 1000 $ but other than that forget it
- Dubai: Free but be happy if you can cashout 6 figures

Yes you can do sh1t like P2P and other things but if you want to do it properly with banks this is it.
Of course this list is for EU citizens, if you are from the US just do it in the US, for Asians maybe Singapore or Caribbean is an option.

But some people are crazy, they are okay going to Dubai and SEA to cashout 6 figures and paying 20% in service and conversion fees,
while they refuse to pay 10-15% in the EU with max 100 € on banking fees.

You dont have to cashout in the country you live in. You can live in say Dubai or Malta and convert to fiat on a major exchange and send to a bank account in some country where receiving from a crypto exchange is not a problem. Xapo based in Gibraltar can be used as both exchange and bank account actually, but many other banks work as well.

And then if needed one can send fiat from the bank account that received from the crypto exchange, to say a bank account in Dubai, then it is just a regular own account fiat transfer.

 

[Don]

hello guys, whats the best thing to do in this scenario.

Let`s say there is a person with 6 figures in crypto and want to cash it out (get it legal in a bankaccount) with the lowest tax possible without moving out of europe (worst case is dubai lol ). There is no hestitation to go and live there for a year or some aslong everything is legal and i dont pay 40-50% tax but the "person" would maybe move back after 1 year or something.


In Malta when im not mistaken you can cash it out for free (privat)if you hold if for a longer period (how long is the period?) would it be possible to just go there wait till u have non dom status and then cashout 6 figures in few batches? since it not via a company i wouldnt need to pay income tax or would it be better to open a company pay these 5% tax and have my peace from law enforcment.

In Hungary there is a 15% flat tax and thats it still at little bit high imo. No sea/sun and less "expats" or "nomads".

cyprus tax would be 12.5 % + you could do some "shady" stuff with north cyprus to setup a company there and basically pay 0 tax cause there is no "enforcment" there. but prefer legal way and inncer peace good things: sun/ sea / nomads

dubai: 0% tax - big playground but far away from friends family etc.

What would you do? is there some better options? i heard if you get nondom in malta and you have income out of malta there is no tax. could setup a bank account outside of europe (swiss/cayman/bahams etc) and receive funds there?


Share your knowledge with me, thanks for your time,


stay wealthy.

Estonia is also a prime spot for cash out, since there is no capital gains tax.

The setup is most likely the cheapest, least bureaucratic, and I believe the only one without mandatory audit.

You move the crypto to Estonian company, exchange to EUR and then withdraw to your own name.

What's more, you can easily combine it with moving your tax residence to Estonia - 0 days presence is required for tax residence, and dividends from local company are tax free, and you even have income from gifts tax free and it doesn't even need to be declared.

 

[toums]

Estonia is also a prime spot for cash out, since there is no capital gains tax.

The setup is most likely the cheapest, least bureaucratic, and I believe the only one without mandatory audit.

You move the crypto to Estonian company, exchange to EUR and then withdraw to your own name.

What's more, you can easily combine it with moving your tax residence to Estonia - 0 days presence is required for tax residence, and dividends from local company are tax free, and you even have income from gifts tax free and it doesn't even need to be declared.

Can you develop more the way? How you can be tax free on capital gain in Estonia AND being officially tax resident with 0 days spent per year..

Seem complicated to justify this to any other country...

 

[euzato]

Ranking countries for this is more like a scale, the lower you go the less you have to pay but harder to cashout crypto.

- Switzerland, Liechtenstein: Are the bests if you are willing to pay their price
- Hungary: The best in the EU imo, very stable banks, for 15% you can cash out even 9 figures € without difficult questions
- Bulgaria: Cheaper than Hungary, for 10% you can cashout maybe 7-8 figures but the banks are more risky
- Cyprus
- Germany: Only capital gains free if you purchased all your crypto, if you made it in trading or something forget it
- Portugal
- Malta: Kinda cheap but good luck finding banks
- SEA: Can be almost free, kinda grey zone, easy to withdraw 1000 $ but other than that forget it
- Dubai: Free but be happy if you can cashout 6 figures

Yes you can do sh1t like P2P and other things but if you want to do it properly with banks this is it.
Of course this list is for EU citizens, if you are from the US just do it in the US, for Asians maybe Singapore or Caribbean is an option.

But some people are crazy, they are okay going to Dubai and SEA to cashout 6 figures and paying 20% in service and conversion fees,
while they refuse to pay 10-15% in the EU with max 100 € on banking fees.

thanks for the reply! but why should i find banks in malta? i just need to be a tax resident there, i can choose a bank from whatever right? and i think u are a bit overexaggerating on dubai, yes there may be fees but if you are like 1% smart u can buy legit property or luxury items in crypto and get them cashed out over bank transfers contra: you need to find a buyer. Still i prefer EU.

This might be bad from the perspective of your home country.
A lot of countries treat crypto to crypto the same as crypto to fiat, in this case you would have sold in your home country and tax would be due.
Also make sure there is no personal exit tax and some countries have a minimum amount of years you should stay away, some have a clear law about this and some just have interpretations from past tax rulings.
Just so you have a clear picture of the risk if your going to be away for so short.

oh, but is it possible to change it back from stables back to eth/btc before i get nondom status in any country? + can send it to a fresh wallet. no exit tax where im from.

 

[Don]

Can you develop more the way? How you can be tax free on capital gain in Estonia AND being officially tax resident with 0 days spent per year..

Seem complicated to justify this to any other country...

The amount of capital you contribute to your Estonian company can also be taken out from the company tax free.
E.g., put 10 million USDT in and then take equal amount in EUR out. Excess gains can also be reinvested tax free.

You can get tax residency certificate immediately after registering your residence. It can be very useful to change residence, especially if you don't want your former residence country to know anything about your crypto gains.

 

[euzato]

You dont have to cashout in the country you live in. You can live in say Dubai or Malta and convert to fiat on a major exchange and send to a bank account in some country where receiving from a crypto exchange is not a problem. Xapo based in Gibraltar can be used as both exchange and bank account actually, but many other banks work as well.

And then if needed one can send fiat from the bank account that received from the crypto exchange, to say a bank account in Dubai, then it is just a regular own account fiat transfer.

before you exchange you wanna get the nondom status no? so when the exchange ask for personal infos you can easily provide them without getting flagged for tax evasion or some s**t because foreign income is not taxed aslong it doesnt touch maltese ground. then you can cashout on any non maltese bank, is this right?
thanks for your comment.

 

[CyberZero]

but is it possible to change it back from stables back to eth/btc before i get nondom status in any country? + can send it to a fresh wallet. no exit tax where im from.

That would not change anything from a taxation perspective, what's done is done, you also will need sof for your banks and emi's so just sending to a fresh wallet would not help.

 

[euzato]

Estonia is also a prime spot for cash out, since there is no capital gains tax.

The setup is most likely the cheapest, least bureaucratic, and I believe the only one without mandatory audit.

You move the crypto to Estonian company, exchange to EUR and then withdraw to your own name.

What's more, you can easily combine it with moving your tax residence to Estonia - 0 days presence is required for tax residence, and dividends from local company are tax free, and you even have income from gifts tax free and it doesn't even need to be declared.

thanks for your knowledge, i need to look into this / do some research. can u have 2 tax residents? lets say i wanna live in malta + want to own a estonish company, which law will "dominate". Estonia seems great then. Has estonia reliable/crypto friendly banks?

That would not change anything from a taxation perspective, what's done is done, you also will need sof for your banks and emi's so just sending to a fresh wallet would not help.

true, i mean for that you got tax lawyer, but for every problem there is an solution. for this e.g. you can open a service within a company in a cheap tax jurisdiction (literally whatever selling courses or products) accepting cryptocurrencies, so youll have an income when some "wallets" send you over money.

 

[Don]

thanks for your knowledge, i need to look into this / do some research. can u have 2 tax residents? lets say i wanna live in malta + want to own a estonish company, which law will "dominate". Estonia seems great then. Has estonia reliable/crypto friendly banks?

Its not needed to become Estonian resident for this to work, but if you manage Estonian company from abroad your setup might be exposed to tax risk in the country where you live.
You can build some substance to mitigate this risk though.

In regards to crypto friendly banking, best options are usually EMI-s and there are a lot of options available. Local bank is not mandatory for Estonian companies.

 

[toums]

The amount of capital you contribute to your Estonian company can also be taken out from the company tax free.
E.g., put 10 million USDT in and then take equal amount in EUR out. Excess gains can also be reinvested tax free.

You can get tax residency certificate immediately after registering your residence. It can be very useful to change residence, especially if you don't want your former residence country to know anything about your crypto gains.

So to resume what you say :
you swap your crypto to USDT (in individual account level).
You set up a EE company
You open Kraken corporate account for the EE
You transfer the 10M$ in usdt to the Kraken EE corporate account
You cash-out from kraken to EE corporate bank account
Then from EE to individual oversea..

Maybe in that situation you add 2 layers of problem (assuming all is white from your crypto as individual)
1) to justify this amount of USDT a you send t the EE company and EE authorities, AML and all blabla?
2) Find a reliable bank for a brand new EE business company and transfer 10M ?
3) Really, using an EMI for 10M$+ ?

Regarding the tax residency itself, you said you get immediately after registering your residence, so you have to have / keep a flat there first ? And if they deliver to you right after the EE tax residency, what's is the real value of it? I think if you dont spend any time there he doesn't have more value than a 60days self-declaration in Cyprus.. so not valid anywhere else..

If I am wrong on some points, please correct me, thanks.

 

[DomOCT]

is there some better options?

Croatia, look it up

 

[Don]

So to resume what you say :
you swap your crypto to USDT (in individual account level).
You set up a EE company
You open Kraken corporate account for the EE
You transfer the 10M$ in usdt to the Kraken EE corporate account
You cash-out from kraken to EE corporate bank account
Then from EE to individual oversea..

Maybe in that situation you add 2 layers of problem (assuming all is white from your crypto as individual)
1) to justify this amount of USDT a you send t the EE company and EE authorities, AML and all blabla?
2) Find a reliable bank for a brand new EE business company and transfer 10M ?
3) Really, using an EMI for 10M$+ ?

Regarding the tax residency itself, you said you get immediately after registering your residence, so you have to have / keep a flat there first ? And if they deliver to you right after the EE tax residency, what's is the real value of it? I think if you dont spend any time there he doesn't have more value than a 60days self-declaration in Cyprus.. so not valid anywhere else..

If I am wrong on some points, please correct me, thanks.

I just wanted to highlight that its possible to exchange crypto to fiat tax-free with the appropriate structure.
Everyone's circumstances are different so value is quite subjective.
For banking you have multiple options. Even some local banks support crypto, but you can't expect zero questions asked in 2024.