Russian President Putin announces military operation in Ukraine

[369]

You make no mention of why Russia has Nazis in its army (even at the lieutenant colonel and the brigade commander level).

You make no mention of why Putin would invite a Nazi to the Kremlin.

You make no mention of why Putin would take photographs with a known Nazi -- at the Kremlin.

You make no mention of why Putin -- if he is so concerned about Nazis in Ukraine and elsewhere -- would hire a Nazi to assassinate a Jewish president.

You discussed none of the real relevant issues. After all, this is a Russian Nazi who served in the Russian army and who visited Putin in the Kremlin and who still works for Putin.

Of course there are nazis in russia
same for germany or switzerland.
But its by far not such a big issue like in ukraine.

You play stupid games why i won't reply to you anymore.

You compare the nazi issue in ukraine with other countries even they are totaly diffrent in extremicy.
Or you wanna tell me germany is a nazi country because there are nazis too and even met with politicans there too?

Lol, you're back! Looks like you forgot to reply to a few messages here earlier...

i just proofed that even ukraine leadership is admiting that russia is not shoting missles on civilians.....
Of course you give a s**t because truth doesn't bother you


And about Mariupol where you claimed there is no azonov..........5 choppers flew yesterday in a desperate suicide mission to mariupol to rescue some azanov leadership.2 choppers got shot down.
Yeah seems noone important was there like you guys claimed

 

[John Spectre]

When i read this psyop above i feel that i came to some prorussian shitty site like a 'russia today'. Fully repeats such bs.

In the meantime as russian forces retreats from the Kyiv and Chernihiv areas, Moscow says Ukraine hit a fuel depot inside Russia:

Moscow says Ukraine hit a fuel depot inside Russia

(Reuters) -Russia accused Ukraine of carrying out an air strike against a fuel depot in the Russian city of Belgorod on Friday, an incident the Kremlin said set an unfavourable tone for peace talks with Kyiv. Ukraine's foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said he could not confirm or deny reports of...

www.swissinfo.ch

 

[polonieth]

There is a new clip flowing arround telegram with Arestovich (Zelenskiy advisor) that people should not fear missles because it makes no sense to fire millon dollar expensive missles on civilian buildings and that russia is only targeting military facilities and infrastructur.
He adds the only fear should be of misfire and if INTERCEPTED BY MISSLE DEFENCES

There you have it directly from ukraine leadership

This also encourages civilians to stay, which can then be used as human shields as we saw during Mariupol.

And about Mariupol where you claimed there is no azonov..........5 choppers flew yesterday in a desperate suicide mission to mariupol to rescue some azanov leadership.2 choppers got shot down.
Yeah seems noone important was there like you guys claimed

There is something much more to this, looks like the French are knee-deep in this, trying to get somebody out.

@Golden Fleece is a bad faith actor in this thread. The denial and whataboutisms of Nazi's are ridiculous. Ukraine has them in abundance. There are countless bits of footage of their atrocities and testimonies of civilians who have unfortunately had to deal with thugs who torture them, murder them etc. Their crimes? "Under suspicion of not being sufficiently patriotic enough" Where is Volodymyr Struk?

These are all easy to verify. Whereas all the Russian wrongdoings can never be corroborated, they're tweeted by blue checkmarks or the "Kyivindependent" with zero proof.

But perhaps more worryingly, the west appears to be actively trying to cover up Ukraine's humanitarian crimes and help the Zelinsky/Kolomoisky/NATO regime avoid facing responsibility for it. Why?

 

[JamesDonkey]

The topic should've been renamed to "who will throw more proofs to others in favour of and against Russia "

 

[Golden Fleece]

These are all easy to verify. Whereas all the Russian wrongdoings can never be corroborated

You simply fail to acknowledge any of the evidence of a Nazi presence in Russia, including Putin meeting with Nazi officers in his army at the Kremlin and hiring Nazis as paid assassins. Even Putin himself acts like a Nazi in his aggression against his own people and in his invasion of other countries. It is documented that Nazis are everywhere in Russia.

Aleksandr Verkhovsky, the head of the independent race crimes watchdog Sova, says the Nationalist Socialist Society North was able to operate for years unimpeded.

"The Nationalist-Socialist Society was a distinctive organization. It organized meetings and even tried to run in local elections; in short, it behaved as a legal Nazi organization," Verkhovsky says. "At the same time, members of this organization committed violent crimes, including murder. Even at the time, though, this was no secret. Then the organization split in 2007 and started withering. This is when law-enforcement agencies seriously tackled the Nationalist-Socialist Society."

Widespread xenophobia among the Russian population also continues to provide fertile ground for neo-Nazis and other ultranationalist groups. Many Russians blame immigrants for stealing jobs and committing crimes. Migrant workers argue that they take on menial jobs that Russians are unwilling to perform and complain of rampant discrimination.
* * *
Over the past year, it has managed to turn out large numbers of supporters at various nationalist rallies, including a massive protest in Moscow in December following the killing of a nationalist youth by a Muslim suspect. The rally, close to the Kremlin, erupted in violence and sparked a string of attacks against non-Slavs.

Prominent Targets

"These groups are active, they carry out serious training work, they publish reading material and organize mass rallies such as the so-called Russian March, during which xenophobic slogans are chanted. It's not only rhetoric," says Aleksandr Brod, director of the Moscow Bureau for Human Rights. "They also carry out attacks on immigrants, brutal beatings, and murders, and plot terror attacks."

Rights watchdogs also warn that such groups have shifted tactics and are now increasingly targeting police, government officials, and anti-racist campaigners.

In April 2010, Eduard Chuvashov, a judge known for his tough verdicts against skinheads, was gunned down in a contract-style shooting outside his Moscow apartment.

Neo-Nazis' Sentences Welcomed

Anti-racism campaigners have welcomed the tough sentences handed down by a Moscow court against a group of serial killers as part of a recent government crackdown on ultranationalist groups that follows years of leniency.

www.rferl.org

 

[khinkali]

Does anyone else feel that the word "Nazi" is being over used?

Yes there are a small number of people in various countries who self-identify with and wear logos associated with 1920s to 1940s National Socialism, but this is rare.

Mostly it seems to be "people I don't like", which devalues and dilutes the term and makes it meaningless. Maybe we could use more descriptive terms from now on?

 

[polonieth]

Does anyone else feel that the word "Nazi" is being over used?

Yes there are a small number of people in various countries who self-identify with and wear logos associated with 1920s to 1940s National Socialism, but this is rare.

Mostly it seems to be "people I don't like", which devalues and dilutes the term and makes it meaningless. Maybe we could use more descriptive terms from now on?

You are conflating using the word Nazis, which leftists brand as anyone they disagree with. "I don't think trans woman should use the ladies bathroom" "You're a nazi!"

vs

ACTUAL Nazis. These guys in Ukraine are hardcore, they worship Stepan Bandera.

For the former you are correct, it is overused and trivialises it.

For the latter, it's 100% accurate and this term should be used.

I don't know what people are more clueless about in the west, Covid 19 or what is happening in Ukraine. Maybe on a par, either way, one mass formation followed by another.

 

[khinkali]

You are conflating using the word

Different people in this thread have accused their opposing sides of being "Nazis". They might both be right, after all there are Nazi sympathisers even in 2022. But these accusations are too broadly based and have got out of hand.

Covid 19

I don't even know which side of the covid culture war you're on, but to bring it up in this context is a good example of what I'm talking about. And that does not mean that I support any equally extreme enemies of yours.

 

[polonieth]

Different people in this thread have accused their opposing sides of being "Nazis". They might both be right, after all there are Nazi sympathisers even in 2022. But these accusations are too broadly based and have got out of hand.



I don't even know which side of the covid culture war you're on, but to bring it up in this context is a good example of what I'm talking about. And that does not mean that I support any equally extreme enemies of yours.

The posts pointing out that Ukraine has a Nazi problem are not an accusation. They are facts. Anyone who cares to look can see this is the case. It isn't out of hand or broadly based. It is right there in the open. Anyone denying it or treading on eggshells with "well I dunno it might be right but there are Nazis elsewhere too" is either stupid or has an agenda.

 

[khinkali]

The problem is that someone else can write the same paragraph as above, just replacing "Ukraine" with "Russia". The swapping of insults between people on both sides doesn't seem to achieve very much.

 

[polonieth]

The problem is that someone else can write the same paragraph as above, just replacing "Ukraine" with "Russia". The swapping of insults between people on both sides doesn't seem to achieve very much.

Yes, but then the post would be false. All countries have a Nazi contingent, not all of them have entire battalions and large numbers who are following Stepan Bandera.

What we do need to get to the bottom of however is why the west has been training these troops and working alongside them? Something seriously messed up is going on, and it likely runs far deeper than Biden's crack head sons dodgy dealings.

 

[khinkali]

Feel free to do the research @polonieth . How many Nazi supporters are there in DE, HU, CZ, US, PL, UK, BR, IT, SE, FR, ES, CA, NL? The answers are quire uncomfortable.

The numbers in UA and RU may well be less, but Western media have more interest in exposing them for some reasons.

 

[Golden Fleece]

ACTUAL Nazis. These guys in Ukraine are hardcore, they worship Stepan Bandera.

The main problem is that people are ignorant of history. Even a cursory research of Stepan Bandera shows that he was a nationalist, not a Nazi. If he was a Nazi, or even a Nazi collaborator, why would the Gestapo arrest him and then place him in a concentration camp?

Bandera was arrested by the Gestapo, which put him under house arrest on 5 July 1941, and later between 1942 and 1943 sent him to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp.

Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was born only because my grandfather's family fled from Eastern Europe to Germany when the Soviet tanks rolled into their country. The Germans were viewed by almost all Eastern Europeans as far more humane versus the Soviet savages. The family later scattered all over the world rather than return to a Soviet occupied country. So, I have studied this history my entire life.

After enduring hundreds of years of Russian occupation and experiencing Soviet aggression since 1920, many thousands of nationalists -- such as Stepan Bandera -- worked with the Germans during WWII to keep their nations free from Soviet occupation. They would do anything to save their countries. That did not make them Nazis. That made them nationalist freedom fighters. If I was Ukrainian, I would also celebrate the lives of patriots such as Stepan Bandera.

As always, it is the Russians who act and think like Nazis. Indeed, they are the other side of the same coin.

 

[polonieth]

The main problem is that people are ignorant of history. Even a cursory research of Stepan Bandera shows that he was a nationalist, not a Nazi. If he was a Nazi, or even a Nazi collaborator, why would the Gestapo arrest him and then place him in a concentration camp?

Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was born only because my father's family fled from Eastern Europe to Germany when the Soviet tanks rolled into their country. The Germans were viewed by almost all Eastern Europeans as far more humane versus the Soviet savages. The family later scattered all over the world rather than returning to a Soviet occupied country. So, I have studied all this history my entire life.

After enduring hundreds of years of Russian occupation and experiencing Soviet aggression since 1920, many thousands of nationalists -- such as Stepan Bandera -- worked with the Germans during WWII to ensure that their nations would be free from Soviet communist occupation. They would do anything to save their countries. That did not make them Nazis. That made them nationalist freedom fighters. If I was Ukrainian, I would also celebrate the lives of patriots such as Stepan Bandera.

As always, it is the Russians who act and think like Nazis. They are same side of the same coin.

View attachment 3430

Thanks for finally shedding some light on why you post what you do in this thread. You cannot take an objective view.

 

[369]

Feel free to do the research @polonieth . How many Nazi supporters are there in DE, HU, CZ, US, PL, UK, BR, IT, SE, FR, ES, CA, NL? The answers are quire uncomfortable.

The numbers in UA and RU may well be less, but Western media have more interest in exposing them for some reasons.

there are no nazis running any army or being in high position power......who are worshipping bandera/hitler

The main problem is that people are ignorant of history. Even a cursory research of Stepan Bandera shows that he was a nationalist, not a Nazi. If he was a Nazi, or even a Nazi collaborator, why would the Gestapo arrest him and then place him in a concentration camp?

Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was born only because my grandfather's family fled from Eastern Europe to Germany when the Soviet tanks rolled into their country. The Germans were viewed by almost all Eastern Europeans as far more humane versus the Soviet savages. The family later scattered all over the world rather than return to a Soviet occupied country. So, I have studied this history my entire life.

After enduring hundreds of years of Russian occupation and experiencing Soviet aggression since 1920, many thousands of nationalists -- such as Stepan Bandera -- worked with the Germans during WWII to keep their nations free from Soviet occupation. They would do anything to save their countries. That did not make them Nazis. That made them nationalist freedom fighters. If I was Ukrainian, I would also celebrate the lives of patriots such as Stepan Bandera.

As always, it is the Russians who act and think like Nazis. Indeed, they are the other side of the same coin.

View attachment 3430

LOL
You know s**t about history it seems.
Poles never forget how ukrainian bandera killed polish civilians.........till today they don't accept ukraines in a high grade
Did banderas killed polish civilians to fight soviet union ?

 

[Golden Fleece]

Thanks for finally shedding some light on why you post what you do in this thread. You cannot take an objective view.

I am simply reporting actual history and the facts. For example, the people claiming that Stepan Bandera was a Nazi are objectively wrong -- and it does not take more than a few minutes of research to prove it.

Unlike the Russian apologists here just spouting off ignorantly, I have studied these issues for decades.

 

[369]

I am simply reporting actual history and the facts. For example, the people claiming that Stepan Bandera was a Nazi are objectively wrong -- and it does not take more than a few minutes of research to prove it.

Unlike the Russian apologists here just spouting off ignorantly, I have studied these issues for decades.

you clearly have studied it poorly.....
come to poland and ask any polish guy about bandera and he will tell you in the face what he thinks about them.
polish people don't forget and thats a sentance i can confirm as a foreigner is true
Also claiming because gestapo stopped his insanity of murdering that he is not a nazi even he worshipped SS ideology and Hitler is simple STUPID

 

[khinkali]

@369 there are some who worship whomever but I think we can overstate the scale of the problem.

I stand by my original point and it is neutral towards you and your opponents equally.

There are more than zero Nazis but people here on both sides are now exaggerating to a large degree and it is not helpful.

"My facts are facts, your opinions are just opinions."

 

[Golden Fleece]

You know s**t about history it seems.
Poles never forget how ukrainian bandera killed polish civilians.........till today they don't accept ukraines in a high grade
Did banderas killed polish civilians to fight soviet union ?

It was war -- and patriots killed whoever aided the Soviet Union in its aggression. I have no problem with that.

In terms of the slaughter of innocents, that is another matter -- but it seems he was not involved.

Despite the central role played by Bandera's followers in the massacre of Poles in western Ukraine, Bandera himself was interned in a German concentration camp when the concrete decision to massacre the Poles was made and when the Poles were killed.

Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again, the German Nazis placed him in a concentration because . . . he was a Nazi? lol.

 

[369]

It was war -- and patriots killed whoever aided the Soviet Union in its aggression. I have no problem with that.

In terms of the slaughter of innocents, that is another matter -- but it seems he was not involved.

Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again, the German Nazis placed him in a concentration because . . . he was a Nazi? Moronic.

Sorry but you are simple dumb when claiming bandera mass killed polish civilians to fight soviet union which were also an enemy of poland at that time.
I recommend come to poland and tell anybody your stupidty here and i GUARANTEE you ,you won't leave that country on your own legs.
You can't imagine how deep this crime sits in the polish people minds and how much they hate bandera