Was Bitcoin not an alternative investment to the stock market?

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Jerry1911

Entrepreneur

James Spader

Forum Moderator
Staff member
As I understood the entire idea for Bitcoin it was meant to be a safe-haven for investors when all other Investments fail. I think it's disproved now.
 

clemens

Corporate Services
Mentor Group Gold

Golden Fleece

Entrepreneur
As I understood the entire idea for Bitcoin it was meant to be a safe-haven for investors when all other Investments fail. I think it's disproved now.
No, if you read the original whitepaper, Bitcoin was originally intended as an electronic currency. It failed spectacularly at that goal, because its value is so unstable. It was proven useless as a real currency, where stability as a store of value is one of several prerequisites for any currency.

Only then was it re-invented as a safe-haven for investors, where recent history has now proven that it has also failed spectacularly in that regard.

Every time that Bitcoin fails in a newly invented role, some new purpose is invented for Bitcoin by its enthusiastic cult members. And, each time, it fails spectacularly. Rinse and repeat.
 

JohnnyDoe

Mentor Group Gold
No, if you read the original whitepaper, Bitcoin was originally intended as an electronic currency. It failed spectacularly at that goal, because its value is so unstable. In summary, it was proven useless as a real currency, where stability as a store of value is one of several prerequisites for any currency.

Only then was it re-invented as a safe-haven for investors, where recent history has now proven that it has also failed spectacularly in that regard.

Every time that it fails, some new purpose is invented for Bitcoin by its enthusiastic cult members. And, each time, it fails spectacularly.
Fails? From zero to whatever $ value you give it? That’s a performance of infinite %
I love FUD
 

Golden Fleece

Entrepreneur
Fails? From zero to whatever $ value you give it? That’s a performance of infinite %
I love FUD
If Bitcoin had succeeded on its whitepaper goal, then everyone would now be using it as a currency.

Instead, it remains a mere speculation with almost no real utility -- and certainly none at all for the masses.
 

James Spader

Forum Moderator
Staff member

JohnnyDoe

Mentor Group Gold
Do you think it will be better or worse ? I have nothing else to watch than
Open the chart, click on LOG button on upper right corner and zoom out. It’s like LSD but better rof/% The world suddenly looks sweeter and more colorful
 

JackAlabama

Entrepreneur
A liquidity draining event is happening since early 2022 pulling liqudity out from every asset class (and bitcoin is the easiest to sell across the world and with no closing hours nor weekend off), so yes it goes down in price as people try in a rush to cover margin, loans and whatnot debts.
Recently celsius seem to be in utter distress hence adding stress from the inside.

If Bitcoin had succeeded on its whitepaper goal, then everyone would now be using it as a currency.

Instead, it remains a mere speculation with almost no real utility -- and certainly none at all for the masses.
It is getting there.

But this takes of course time.
Peter Thiel is famously for quoting that all network technologies do not make much in the first 10 years and only play their might after these initial 10 years.
In 2022 we can say two countries adopted it as legal tender (CAR, Salvador).
First one and then all at once.

Think back when Facebook became a thing. Early on you were alone on your platform, knew no one from RL and after some turning point suddenly everyone you went to kindergarden with was on it.
And then Facebook started to shape society and elections etc. maybe only just a few years shy of 2020.
 
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Sols

Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
In 2022 we can say two countries adopted it as legal tender (CAR, Salvador).
And it's been unpopular and unsuccessful in El Salvador so far and CAR has low internet penetration (around 10%), and those few who have heard about it don't seem particularly enthusiastic to the opaque system that has been set up.

Time will tell, though, whether it's money laundering and/or speculative investment on a governmental level, or if these countries will change attitudes and embrace bitcoin.
 

JackAlabama

Entrepreneur
And it's been unpopular and unsuccessful in El Salvador so far and CAR has low internet penetration (around 10%), and those few who have heard about it don't seem particularly enthusiastic to the opaque system that has been set up.

Time will tell, though, whether it's money laundering and/or speculative investment on a governmental level, or if these countries will change attitudes and embrace bitcoin.
That is what the mainstream claims. surprise surprise how can they be not biased on this? ;)

On the ground it looks what you would expect implementing smth like this in a third world. A lot of initiatives on the ground take place however and the gdp and tourism was up a lot since for example. Biggest gdp growth they ever had according to the president.
There are hiccups and it takes time of course which I have written above with the facebook example, it is just getting started and life less than a year.
According to these network adoption models, it will start only from now-ish to become interesting.

Not all is money laundering just because it is thrown around like candy. If you would have a look at the reports from the chain analysis, these quasi gov agencies even claim money laundering is very tiny and only a fraction of what is happening with fiat.
 

Golden Fleece

Entrepreneur
A liquidity draining event is happening since early 2022 pulling liqudity out from every asset class (and bitcoin is the easiest to sell across the world and with no closing hours nor weekend off), so yes it goes down in price as people try in a rush to cover margin, loans and whatnot debts.
Recently celsius seem to be in utter distress hence adding stress from the inside.


It is getting there.

But this takes of course time.
Peter Thiel is famously for quoting that all network technologies do not make much in the first 10 years and only play their might after these initial 10 years.
In 2022 we can say two countries adopted it as legal tender (CAR, Salvador).
First one and then all at once.

Think back when Facebook became a thing. Early on you were alone on your platform, knew no one from RL and after some turning point suddenly everyone you went to kindergarden with was on it.
And then Facebook started to shape society and elections etc. maybe only just a few years shy of 2020.
What you left out of the equation is the fact that there are the hundreds of failures for every technological advance that eventually becomes a success. Bitcoin may become one of those many failures.

In the case of Bitcoin, it has no real purpose. It failed as an electronic currency. It is like a giant crowd funded venture capital project searching for a valid reason to exist. It might find one, but the odds are against it.

The advent of thousands of worthless crypto coins / tokens proves that crypto is a magnet for dumb money.

You are watching background noise.
Only if you do not know what to look for. A careful study of the hourly charts shows that Bitcoin bottomed at almost the same time as the stock markets. It also rebounded at the same time as the stock markets. That correlation is a fact well-worth knowing.

Anyone who owns or trades Bitcoin now needs to carefully follow the price action, and the underlying fundamentals, of the stock markets. It is impossible to follow the underlying fundamentals of Bitcoin, because there are none (except perhaps in a few nations with capital controls). But the underlying fundamentals of the stock markets, which are terrible right now, will allow you to forecast the price action of Bitcoin.
 
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Sols

Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
That is what the mainstream claims. surprise surprise how can they be not biased on this? ;)
No, it's based on reports from El Salvador and CAR.

In El Salvador, a lot of shops offered it for a while but most have stopped after they faced technical problems and didn't like the value of bitcoin fluctuate so much. The sellers weren't keeping the bitcoin. People are worried about Bukele spending millions on bitcoin.

It's no secret that CAR has low internet penetration. Almost no one of the 10% or so that have internet access understands bitcoin or is showing enthusiasm about the project. They find the Sango project opaque and irrelevant to the actual needs of the people in the CAR.
 
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