Crypto assets reporting in CRS - coming soon

[Don]

As a few wise men on this forum have predicted, reporting of crypto assets under the Common reporting standard (CRS) may not be that far - It is the OECD’s intention to report back on the Crypto-Asset Reporting Framework (CARF) and the amended CRS under the Indonesian Presidency of the G20 for its October 2022 meeting:

The OECD has released a public consultation document concerning a new global tax transparency framework to provide for the reporting and exchange of information with respect to crypto-assets, as well as proposed amendments to the CRS for the automatic exchange of financial account information between countries. The purpose of the consultation is to inform policy makers decisions on the possible adoption of any such framework and its related design components.

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The OECD is now seeking public comments on the released proposals.

Gentlemen you are invited to send your comments no later than 29 April 2022 by e-mail (in Word format) taxpublicconsultation (at) oecd (dot) org , but also share them here.

Meanwhile, please enjoy the fine days of crypto while they still last.

 

[Martin Everson]

Well its started sooner than I said. CRS will include crypto quite possibly. So all these obscure exchanges may have to start reporting. But how they gonna cover crypto assets "transferred in a decentralised manner" . Sounds crazy .

--- quote start

Against this background, the G20 has asked the OECD to develop a framework for the automatic exchange of information on crypto-assets. This new framework provides for the collection and exchange of tax-relevant information between tax administrations, with respect to persons engaging in certain transactions in crypto-assets. It covers crypto-assets that can be held and transferred in a decentralised manner, without the intervention of traditional financial intermediaries, as well as asset classes relying on similar technology that may emerge in the future. Individuals and entities that, as a business, provide services to exchange crypto-assets against other crypto-assets, or for fiat currencies, must apply the due diligence procedures to identify their customers, and then report the aggregate values of the exchanges and transfers for such customers on an annual basis.

The proposal extends the scope of the CRS to cover electronic money products and Central Bank Digital Currencies. In light of the development of the CARF, the proposals also include changes to cover indirect investments in crypto-assets through Investment Entities and derivatives.

---- quote end

 

[JackAlabama]

Well its started sooner than I said. CRS will include crypto quite possibly. So all these obscure exchanges may have to start reporting. But how they gonna cover crypto assets "transferred in a decentralised manner" . Sounds crazy .

--- quote start

Against this background, the G20 has asked the OECD to develop a framework for the automatic exchange of information on crypto-assets. This new framework provides for the collection and exchange of tax-relevant information between tax administrations, with respect to persons engaging in certain transactions in crypto-assets. It covers crypto-assets that can be held and transferred in a decentralised manner, without the intervention of traditional financial intermediaries, as well as asset classes relying on similar technology that may emerge in the future. Individuals and entities that, as a business, provide services to exchange crypto-assets against other crypto-assets, or for fiat currencies, must apply the due diligence procedures to identify their customers, and then report the aggregate values of the exchanges and transfers for such customers on an annual basis.

The proposal extends the scope of the CRS to cover electronic money products and Central Bank Digital Currencies. In light of the development of the CARF, the proposals also include changes to cover indirect investments in crypto-assets through Investment Entities and derivatives.

---- quote end

As with pretty much about everything, this will also be spectacular failure just making life hard for the little man trying to save his 100$ savings end of month, increase bureaucracy massively and at the end of the day, do nothing.

"The rules would also apply to both offline "cold" wallets and hot ones, as well as to services like crypto ATMs. But the OECD said it wants to exclude people simply validating blockchain transactions, as well as "closed loop" assets like vouchers used in a particular store. Potential new central bank digital currencies and other kinds of "

Someone gotta tell them that it is just simple code and math which creates wallets and not much else. Maybe the OECD geniouses think it works the same as online banking as the wallet apps look so similar. I have a pro tip for free, they are not that similar .

 

[Martin Everson]

Yeah its wild action by OECD to go this route and I am not a crypto fan. There end game is for everyone to have no private personal assets that your government is unaware off. They want to know everything you have and be able to seize everything you have. In end it has very little to do with tax but control of the population. It's easy to control a population under threat of being able to take or freeze all their assets .

Also history will repeat itself sadly. People need to be aware and awake to the dangers of government knowing all your assets - especially if you live in Europe. Today its Russian Oligarchs accused and having assets frozen or taken without due process but tomorrow it could be you. Don't make life easy for them and see the big picture folks.

A 1938 Nazi Law Forced Jews to Register Their Wealth—Making It Easier to Steal​

A 1938 Nazi Law Forced Jews to Register Their Wealth—Making It Easier to Steal

Eighty years ago, the edict marked a turning point in the Nazi party’s efforts to push Jews out of the German economy

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[void]

hence bisq and other distributed services

on the other hand vast majority of the (western) world citizens has no privacy nowadays and they don't care - why should they start caring because of bitcoin, it's just another property

 

[Martin Everson]

on the other hand vast majority of the (western) world citizens has no privacy nowadays and they don't care

Very true. They don't care about privacy at all. They want convenience above all else. Also vast majority of people don't even own any crypto so its a none issue for them.

 

[JackAlabama]

Very true. They don't care about privacy at all. They want convenience above all else. Also vast majority of people don't even own any crypto so its a none issue for them.

Yep indeed. The ones we see on social media (if not fake) is a very very tiny minority of people with wealth. Most people in Europe also do not own stocks or are very skeptical of it, whereas in US it is more widespread to own stocks.

The good take away for the optimists is crypto does its job or otherwise they would not waste one bit of energy of looking into this (complicated) sector.

 

[erni]

how will they be able to do the CRS on wallets like Exodus and Blockchain ? they are 100% anonymous!

 

[RealDude]

how will they be able to do the CRS on wallets like Exodus and Blockchain ? they are 100% anonymous!

Are they?

 

[erni]

Are they?

I have not provided any KYC or any documents at all.running on the 5th year now!

 

[stivemoose]

But if you have BTC stored in the ledger for example, what they will report? Am I missing something?

 

[aage]

"The rules would also apply to both offline "cold" wallets and hot ones, as well as to services like crypto ATMs.

I can't see how they will do it

Can we discuss Bitcoin and CRS ?

Say I have a wallet with never given KYC or any private information at all, all well hided behind endless IP'S and proxies. How the hell will they be able to exchange tax information based on the coins I have in my wallet?

www.offshorecorptalk.com

 

[backpacker]

I can't see how they will do it

Can we discuss Bitcoin and CRS ?

Say I have a wallet with never given KYC or any private information at all, all well hided behind endless IP'S and proxies. How the hell will they be able to exchange tax information based on the coins I have in my wallet?

www.offshorecorptalk.com

See it as a starter.

Until today there are plenty of jurisdiction who do not participate in CRS. And there will always be countries who do not participate or ways to get around reporting. But the most important ones are on board.

Same with crypto: They will not be able to catch all and everything. However, the vast majority (of exchanges, i.e. volume) will participate and will have tools in place to control and report efficiently.

I am just surprised that gold- and silver storages are still out-of-scope.

 

[calnana]

Get your s*** in order. Cut your ties, and move to favourable jurisdictions.

 

[erni]

But if you have BTC stored in the ledger for example, what they will report? Am I missing something?

same I thought.

They are going after the big investors with millions in their wallets and that already KYC'ed their wallets. There are also noobs and dump people around thinking they must KYC a wallet so they do!

 

[backpacker]

same I thought.

They are going after the big investors with millions in their wallets and that already KYC'ed their wallets. There are also noobs and dump people around thinking they must KYC a wallet so they do!

As discussed over there -> EU's upcoming crypto AML regulation (TFR) things are getting tougher also for the small fish. Soon you will have no more chance to do anything unreported with your crypto.

 

[JackAlabama]

Are they?

No.
But they can cuck to the borg and implement it of course. But you can use any other wallet or DIY with some opensource code which is plentifully out there.

As discussed over there -> EU's upcoming crypto AML regulation (TFR) things are getting tougher also for the small fish. Soon you will have no more chance to do anything unreported with your crypto.

I quote @Martin Everson "Move out of the EU while you still can".

If your budget is very small. You can go to Paraguay and the likes.
If your budget is high, you can go to Dubai or other similar places.

The grass is really greener on the other side .

 

[RealDude]

The grass is really greener on the other side .

Especially in desert states

 

[Golden Fleece]

You guys are missing the entire point of enacting such laws in a social welfare system. Ayn Rand said it best in her novel "Atlas Shrugged," using the book's antagonist Dr. Ferris:

“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”​

A quote by Ayn Rand

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals,...

www.goodreads.com

It is all about herd control in a morally and fiscally bankrupt society.

 

[RexS9999]

But if you have BTC stored in the ledger for example, what they will report? Am I missing something?

I see a future where one might have a ton of money in bitcoin but unable to buy a house or a car without taking a huge tax hit. This is where the governments will step in and tax it. There is not value in stored wealth if you are not going to enjoy it someday.