If not having money in crypto, then in what?

[moneyhoney]

ahhh I would risk to take Gold, Diamonds or any luxury with me to Europe from Hong Kong worth 50K + US$ but that's my opinion. It's easy to post something on a forum but another thing is to do this in real life

I have a friend who bought a watch for more than 50k in HK and wore it back to Europe, shipping the box, receipts etc for obvious reasons...

 

[bancosantander]

I have a friend who bought a watch for more than 50k in HK and wore it back to Europe, shipping the box, receipts etc for obvious reasons...

Every time you travel with the watch and you get controlled they might investigate where(country) this watch was bought. I do not recommend buying such stuff in another country.
It is really easy to buy such stuff with cash. Even in countries with strict cash limitations like italy this is possible. I am not talking about buying a used one from from a private seller.

If the price in another country is lower then why not but not for using this as a cash limitation loophole. Always remember not paying tax is in most countries a crime. Why put yourself on the radar because of doing stupid things like crossing borders with too much cash or gold in 2020?

 

[moneyhoney]

Every time you travel with the watch and you get controlled they might investigate where(country) this watch was bought. I do not recommend buying such stuff in another country.

I travel all the time with a luxury watch and never be asked anything. Me like other millions of people.

It is really easy to buy such stuff with cash. Even in countries with strict cash limitations like italy this is possible. I am not talking about buying a used one from from a private seller.

True. Really easy not sure, but possibile.

If the price in another country is lower then why not but not for using this as a cash limitation loophole. Always remember not paying tax is in most countries a crime. Why put yourself on the radar because of doing stupid things like crossing borders with too much cash or gold in 2020?

Never talked about crossing with gold bars.

 

[JohnLocke]

But why would you stash all your money in Gold, Art, Diamonds or any other similar luxury stuff in HK if you live in Europe or somewhere else and never plan to come to HK. How would you ever be able to move such investment to your home country if it is there you need it?

 

[moneyhoney]

But why would you stash all your money in Gold, Art, Diamonds or any other similar luxury stuff in HK if you live in Europe or somewhere else and never plan to come to HK. How would you ever be able to move such investment to your home country if it is there you need it?

It's personal and the reason can be different. Not for everybody obviously.

Just one example: you want to diversify your wealth and have some gold and keep somewhere your government cannot know/have. One day you need it? You go personally, sell it and get cash (then move with bitcoin for instance to your home country) or, in the case of BullionStar, you can do it without moving your a*s.

 

[bancosantander]

It's personal and the reason can be different. Not for everybody obviously.

Just one example: you want to diversify your wealth and have some gold and keep somewhere your government cannot know/have. One day you need it? You go personally, sell it and get cash (then move with bitcoin for instance to your home country) or, in the case of BullionStar, you can do it without moving your a*s.

BullionStar is a great option as you mentioned. Like this it makes sense. Never cross borders with any physical object of value that needs to be declared. If you know the right people there are some options for crossing borders with high amounts of cash but i would always try to avoid this.

Regarding your other post: You can even get investigated because of an expensive DSLR camera at the costums office. Not just because of an expensive watch. Never happened to me before either but it happens.
I am writing this because these are the easiest mistakes to avoid. I guess it depends on the country too but some european countries are getting crazy.

 

[GiGoGo]

european countries are getting crazy

They are getting bankrupt and desperate for money

 

[JohnLocke]

Yeah if you read the book mention in this thread Anyone read the German book, der grösste crash aller zeiten ? then yes EU will go bankrupt within the next 3 years. But who knows what is up and down in this story.

It is a general international policy they put on every worker, China is one of the biggest "big brother" nations over all with full control of every citizen even when they take a dump they will be registered. I believe that is what the European Union want.

 

[moneyhoney]

Yeah if you read the book mention in this thread Anyone read the German book, der grösste crash aller zeiten ? then yes EU will go bankrupt within the next 3 years. But who knows what is up and down in this story.

If that is going the be the case (it is not IMHO, Europe is much more solid than many other areas), nothing would be safe. It'd be simply chaos followed by tyranny.

 

[Gediminas]

Guys you are being too dramatic about the EU situation Nobody is going bankrupt within the 3 years. It sounds like one more conspiracy theory.

 

[Martin Everson]

Guys you are being too dramatic about the EU situation Nobody is going bankrupt within the 3 years. It sounds like one more conspiracy theory.

Your right the ECB can always print more money and buy up all the sovereign bonds again in worse case .

 

[KJK]

Guys you are being too dramatic about the EU situation Nobody is going bankrupt within the 3 years. It sounds like one more conspiracy theory.

This is more true than you may realize.

There are some people who understand the current situation (debt, QE, Abenomics and similar stuff) is wrong, maybe it was the primary motivation for birth of Bitcoin in 2009.

Then there are people who predict the collapse of the debt-based system, such as Peter Schiff or Andreas Antonopoulos - and instead suggest crypto or gold.

Then there are a bit crazier people who add some conspiracy into it such as Ron Paul or even crazier Alex Jones.

However, even if these people were even 10 % correct, will that change anything? Definitely not in the next 3 years, maybe not even 30 years.
Everyone in some position of power (minister, central banker, policeman, tax clerk...) wants to increase his/her power and influence and then do some rent seeking. It would be much much harder in a crypto-only world than in a fiat world. So many things could collapse I don't know where to start.

I probably don't expect a "crash" in the next 3 years but if it really comes, it will be nothing like 2008.

What admin mentioned about the latest changes in China is scary, btw related article:

China’s Central Bank Implements Strict Financial rules: People are turning to Bitcoin - Tokenhell

The Central Bank of China is going to update the policy that comprised of strict rules and regulations for people’s financial information. The new financial guideline framework will affect the public’s private information. The government’s financial pressure has led people to set an eye on...

tokenhell.com

 

[JohnLocke]

maybe it was the primary motivation for birth of Bitcoin in 2009

I think you hit the nail on the top. That's exactly what I believe took the BTC to the endless hights - people needed an alternative to this big brother world and to spend money anonymously, not because they may do something illegal but because we want to spend our money without anyone to collect our data to abuse them.

 

[celizo]

Then there are people who predict the collapse of the debt-based system, such as Peter Schiff or Andreas Antonopoulos - and instead suggest crypto or gold.

Theirs opinions are biased because they just want to push people to invest in gold or bitcoin.
They have probably "interests" to do so...
or some of them just want to make a big noise with scary scenario to have more followers/readers.

Everyone does what they want, but for me I prefer to be diversified between all main asset classes (real estate, bonds, stocks, cash), and not only bitcoin / gold (just as alternative class).

 

[Martin Everson]

That's right you got to take with a pinch of salt a lot of these well known media pundits. They are often selling something or have a interest in what they are promoting as a solution.

If a major economic collapse does occur in the developed world then you really only have precedence of what has happened before to determine where to put your money. Risks aside it has to ultimately be in something you feel comfortable with and fully understand.

If it is going to be gold then it has to be in your possession with no third-party involved. Places like the Perth Mint in Australia for example are 100% not secure. The Australian government has confiscated gold before. Also employees there on 2 or more occasions have stolen gold from the mint and in 2018 they had a major data breach where systems where accessed and customer data stolen.

 

[OKboomer]

So, what do you guys think, now that we have this Coronavirus mess? I for one am disappointed with the performance of Bitcoin, literally shitting the market, losing 55%+ of its value in just 48 hours in the middle of global lockdown introduction and stocks crash. The discussion now is coupling of crypto with traditional stock markets - which crypto was supposed to hedge against. Even with money printing going full speed in Murrica , EU, Japan and many others - bitcoin et al are still down. Not a great first impression for what was supposed to be a safe haven and "born for crisis"

 

[Sulu]

Not sure what you mean, BTC seems to be doing alright currently. Whatever happens to it, I'm hodling.

 

[Educate]

So, what do you guys think, now that we have this Coronavirus mess? I for one am disappointed with the performance of Bitcoin, literally shitting the market, losing 55%+ of its value in just 48 hours in the middle of global lockdown introduction and stocks crash. The discussion now is coupling of crypto with traditional stock markets - which crypto was supposed to hedge against. Even with money printing going full speed in Murrica , EU, Japan and many others - bitcoin et al are still down. Not a great first impression for what was supposed to be a safe haven and "born for crisis"

When people think they will become unemployed they sell speculative assets so they have money yo feed family...what a surprise.

 

[KJK]

So, what do you guys think, now that we have this Coronavirus mess? I for one am disappointed with the performance of Bitcoin, literally shitting the market, losing 55%+ of its value in just 48 hours in the middle of global lockdown introduction and stocks crash. The discussion now is coupling of crypto with traditional stock markets - which crypto was supposed to hedge against. Even with money printing going full speed in Murrica , EU, Japan and many others - bitcoin et al are still down. Not a great first impression for what was supposed to be a safe haven and "born for crisis"

I also fell a bit for this story and now realized that really isn't the case. You could've seen many gold bugs promoting gold as the only real money and the proper hedge; then you could've seen the same to happen with Bitcoin as it is talked about by youtubers and podcasters.

I still hold Bitcoin, I like it, I see its future positive, I know I can survive the crashes (if I can't time them...). However it is probably too small to switch from current monetary system to P2P crypto.

The markets aren't about value, in extreme situations they go up and down depending on liquidity.

You complain Bitcoin crashed 55%+ but honestly I believe stocks would've also crashed 55%+ if there weren't preventive measures - circuit breakers were triggered like 3x per days for 2 or 3 days if I remember; Fed announced crazy and unlimited actions; there is still international demand for US dollar and US-debt so the dollar cannot really lose value so easily.

Bitcoin has nothing like that, it is pure market - so ceteris paribus actually Bitcoin can survive such crashes better than stocks.

There are many mutual funds, pension funds, algorithmic ETFs - they follow some rules and when a condition is met (or they have obligation to pay), they sell all accross the board, no matter if a stock has value or not. One sale triggers another and everything crashes - not just stocks but even gold.

Also you probably imagine "money printing" incorrectly, what is happening or will happen isn't really money printing as people could imagine it from Venezuela or Weimar Germany... I believe deflationary spiral is more likely than hyperinflation. There is a lot of debt in the financial system, basically the #1 export item of the United States is debt and consumption.

There isn't really some insane "money printing" in Europe or Japan. Japan has been in a strange situation for the past 30-40 years, central bank tries to inflate the economy but inflation is near zero, they end up with nationalizing the economy and central bank owning everything. Eurozone could follow the same path with some delay, plus there are regional problems between countries.

 

[JohnLocke]

There is no one that can answer this 100% and tell you what to invest in or not, but the below may be a guideline, it is part of the sequence of investment methods and information in a financial crisis and part of the large Investment Matrix for Doomsday I'm working on inside mentor group.

Below is what I would call the perfect asset protection:

• Up to 30 percent precious metals
• Up to 10 percent Diamonds
• Up to 30 percent debt-free real estate
• Up to 15 percent into Forest, Land, fields, meadows
• Up to 15 percent into stocks (mines, raw materials, water, digitization)
• Up to Exotics (Whisky, Art, Antique cars, Watches)
• Up to 5 percent Bitcoin
• Up to 20 percent Cash (for the Deflation) after that, 0 percent in the Hyperinflation
• Up to 2 percent Foreign Currency
• Up to 3 percent government bonds (speculative)

Furthermore, we advise to invest into food and exchange items. No one is predicting doomsday, but it’s always good in such extreme situations to have enough with food and exchange items, just in case.

Maybe it can help one or the other a little.