Offshore company in Dubai / UAE who?

[BlueMist]

You guys either must be in UAE real estate business or have no clue in what has been happening for the past years or probably not even live in UAE. I have been living here for more than 5 years and my rent has been successfully declining (in Dubai). I pay 15% less than what I paid 5 years ago in a very good location and the property is well managed by a company which owns more than 50 properties only in the area where I live. Because of that I obviously pay more premium, as I essentially rent from the company and not individual person and I have almost round a clock immediate maintenance if something happens. However properties in the same area which were not properly maintained have easily fallen by 30%. I saw this company publishing a property now, same as I rent, which would equal 22% drop if I renew the contract now. 3BR Villas in Arabian Ranches which were priced AED 295k 5 years back (e.g. Alvorada - without a pool) are now priced AED 195.000 or 4BR AED 230.000 with private pool (330k 5 years back...). Not to mention this rates can still be negotiated or have 1-2 extra months included for free.

If you guys think these villas will get back quickly to the premiums they were 5 years back, then you are obviously wrong. Those are things of the past. You can see what is happening in the real estate market now in the UAE. 10% (1 million) of UAE expats are supposed to leave. There have been artificial demand created by the lack of options to travel (leave) the UAE, so many who were supposed to leave, were forced to extend their rents until end of July / August. There are thousands of properties popping out these days and we all know there is a massive oversupply with the properties that are about to be released from the new constructions. People, including doctors have received 20-30% salary cuts, without any short term sights of getting things back to what it was.

Emirates Airlines itself is predicting it will take 4 years until 2024 before the air travel demand can be back to what they had so far. So I am personally not that optimistic and I live in UAE and see what is happening.

Another problem with the GCC countries is the anti-expat attitude. See Kuwait. I hope this won't happen in the UAE but the UAE gov. have just revoked automatic visa extension to December 2020 which they have recently promised to everyone. It just shows anything can be decided and revoked overnight, something which is not exactly building a credibility among investors either.

 

[Davis123]

Kuwait has different mentality always. Plus Dubai is a major hub of an international airlines like Emirates. Looking at conditions in USA etc I think UAE is in a much better position. Some necessary salary cuts have to be done to lessen the impact of such a virus which has effected the quality of life in every country of the world. In USA people are crying for help from the govt and credit card companies are even taking away credit cards of customers with excellent histories as they are scared of bankruptcies as a result of massive layoffs and business closure. People are being evicted in USA and people are asking for help from the govt. Landlords in USA are having hard times in USA paying their bills and charges. Things are in bad shape all over the world and economy of the world so UAE is not in a unique position. It will get back to normal. Many western expats want to move here and are moving here to enjoy tax free status within UAE. If you don't want to buy a property in UAE then don't. I think for a an average person who wants to enjoy a tax free status just buying an apt to live here by himself is an excellent idea too. I personally think buying real estate in a market like Dubai is best at this time. But we all have our own choices. I have lived here more than you have.

 

[Davis123]

They were overpriced to begin with. Mayb

You guys either must be in UAE real estate business or have no clue in what has been happening for the past years or probably not even live in UAE. I have been living here for more than 5 years and my rent has been successfully declining (in Dubai). I pay 15% less than what I paid 5 years ago in a very good location and the property is well managed by a company which owns more than 50 properties only in the area where I live. Because of that I obviously pay more premium, as I essentially rent from the company and not individual person and I have almost round a clock immediate maintenance if something happens. However properties in the same area which were not properly maintained have easily fallen by 30%. I saw this company publishing a property now, same as I rent, which would equal 22% drop if I renew the contract now. 3BR Villas in Arabian Ranches which were priced AED 295k 5 years back (e.g. Alvorada - without a pool) are now priced AED 195.000 or 4BR AED 230.000 with private pool (330k 5 years back...). Not to mention this rates can still be negotiated or have 1-2 extra months included for free.

If you guys think these villas will get back quickly to the premiums they were 5 years back, then you are obviously wrong. Those are things of the past. You can see what is happening in the real estate market now in the UAE. 10% (1 million) of UAE expats are supposed to leave. There have been artificial demand created by the lack of options to travel (leave) the UAE, so many who were supposed to leave, were forced to extend their rents until end of July / August. There are thousands of properties popping out these days and we all know there is a massive oversupply with the properties that are about to be released from the new constructions. People, including doctors have received 20-30% salary cuts, without any short term sights of getting things back to what it was.

Emirates Airlines itself is predicting it will take 4 years until 2024 before the air travel demand can be back to what they had so far. So I am personally not that optimistic and I live in UAE and see what is happening.

Another problem with the GCC countries is the anti-expat attitude. See Kuwait. I hope this won't happen in the UAE but the UAE gov. have just revoked automatic visa extension to December 2020 which they have recently promised to everyone. It just shows anything can be decided and revoked overnight, something which is not exactly building a credibility among investors either.

They were overpriced to begin with. They will soon go higher than what you will pay for at this moment as market is ripe right now but personally I buy smaller real estate investments and build a portfolio of properties than a single property.

 

[BlueMist]

I am positive about UAE mentality, otherwise I would not live here. I agree about buy to live and to get investor residence visa (property above AED 1M), it probably makes sense long term but for the investment, those who bought few years back are counting losses and will still count them few years forward. Just look at the offers since 1-2 years. Developers are offering 50% instalments to be paid 3-5 years POST handover. There are obviously strong incentives to buy, whether is it a right time or not yet, it is hard to say. At leat I have provided REAL LIFE examples of property rental prices and theirs' decline during this past 5 years, not some optimistic bulls**t

 

[JohnLocke]

Thank you for clarification @BlueMist it's great to have knowledge from an insider

 

[Davis123]

I am positive about UAE mentality, otherwise I would not live here. I agree about buy to live and to get investor residence visa (property above AED 1M), it probably makes sense long term but for the investment, those who bought few years back are counting losses and will still count them few years forward. Just look at the offers since 1-2 years. Developers are offering 50% instalments to be paid 3-5 years POST handover. There are obviously strong incentives to buy, whether is it a right time or not yet, it is hard to say. At leat I have provided REAL LIFE examples of property rental prices and theirs' decline during this past 5 years, not some optimistic bulls**t

Obviously when you build them without the necessary oversight as it happened in Houston USA in 70s then the overall market will suffer. There are some extremely good bargains right now just like you stated. For the right investor building a portfolio of smaller properties is the best idea as of this moment market is ripe for investors. It's not my advice to buy properties on payments but for cash investors it's the best option. I know I would not get 8 to 10 percent in USA or Canada like I am getting here . For Canadians, U.K., EU it's so much better than for US but I know a US person who bought over 400 plus properties in Dubai in 2009 when they were low and sold them in 2014 when market was the highest it has been. At the time in 2009 UAE economy was suffering badly too with expats leaving their leased cars on airports.

 

[reesek]

You guys either must be in UAE real estate business or have no clue in what has been happening for the past years or probably not even live in UAE. I have been living here for more than 5 years and my rent has been successfully declining (in Dubai). I pay 15% less than what I paid 5 years ago in a very good location and the property is well managed by a company which owns more than 50 properties only in the area where I live. Because of that I obviously pay more premium, as I essentially rent from the company and not individual person and I have almost round a clock immediate maintenance if something happens. However properties in the same area which were not properly maintained have easily fallen by 30%. I saw this company publishing a property now, same as I rent, which would equal 22% drop if I renew the contract now. 3BR Villas in Arabian Ranches which were priced AED 295k 5 years back (e.g. Alvorada - without a pool) are now priced AED 195.000 or 4BR AED 230.000 with private pool (330k 5 years back...). Not to mention this rates can still be negotiated or have 1-2 extra months included for free.

If you guys think these villas will get back quickly to the premiums they were 5 years back, then you are obviously wrong. Those are things of the past. You can see what is happening in the real estate market now in the UAE. 10% (1 million) of UAE expats are supposed to leave. There have been artificial demand created by the lack of options to travel (leave) the UAE, so many who were supposed to leave, were forced to extend their rents until end of July / August. There are thousands of properties popping out these days and we all know there is a massive oversupply with the properties that are about to be released from the new constructions. People, including doctors have received 20-30% salary cuts, without any short term sights of getting things back to what it was.

Emirates Airlines itself is predicting it will take 4 years until 2024 before the air travel demand can be back to what they had so far. So I am personally not that optimistic and I live in UAE and see what is happening.

Another problem with the GCC countries is the anti-expat attitude. See Kuwait. I hope this won't happen in the UAE but the UAE gov. have just revoked automatic visa extension to December 2020 which they have recently promised to everyone. It just shows anything can be decided and revoked overnight, something which is not exactly building a credibility among investors either.

exactly.

Real estate in Dubai is in significant, structural oversupply. It will remain in oversupply until EMAAR will be allowed to fail. Without bankrupting developers there will never be a balanced market.

 

[CaptK]

Exactly CaptK. I don't know how to explain to these people not knowing stuff on ground here and some realities. You have to visit places and live here for a while to understand fully what is in store for them. Can't just find out from google searches and web news or forums. You have to know experienced people on ground just like you know U.K. property which is superb always but tax free is much better.

Definitely. People think I have shares in the UAE because I push it so much.
It's more expensive than others set up wise but what it offers you is total peace of mind.
Yes it can be expensive but once you know the place then it can be relatively cheap in consideration to other major capitals.
You can live in an upmarket area like the Marina and still pay 700 per month for a 2 bed flat with Marina views.

A 24/7 economy and fantastic social life makes it a great place. Especially when you have some money in your pocket.

If I didn't have commitments I would be there 6 months of the year.

 

[Davis123]

exactly.

Real estate in Dubai is in significant, structural oversupply. It will remain in oversupply until EMAAR will be allowed to fail. Without bankrupting developers there will never be a balanced market.

Dubai govt has a lot of shares in Emaar. I doubt they will allow them to fail. Emaar, Nakheel and Damac are 3 major players here. Trumps significant branding is on a Damac tower here as well as Golf gardens. There are lot of US investors here.

 

[Garret Gates]

I own freehold properties myself and I have been through the purchase title deeds myself with the lawyer. I am posting a simple google search link but people I am sorry working for real estate and they don't understand laws.

All About Freehold vs Leasehold Property in Dubai - MyBayut

Planning to invest in property in Dubai? Learn more about the two types of property ownership available to expat and foriegn buyers: leasehold vs freehold.

www.bayut.com

Thank you for info, I’ll read it carefully

 

[Davis123]

I am positive about UAE mentality, otherwise I would not live here. I agree about buy to live and to get investor residence visa (property above AED 1M), it probably makes sense long term but for the investment, those who bought few years back are counting losses and will still count them few years forward. Just look at the offers since 1-2 years. Developers are offering 50% instalments to be paid 3-5 years POST handover. There are obviously strong incentives to buy, whether is it a right time or not yet, it is hard to say. At leat I have provided REAL LIFE examples of property rental prices and theirs' decline during this past 5 years, not some optimistic bulls**t

You can also buy a lot of smaller properties here totaling 1 million AED and get a residence visa. It does not have to be 1 property. They have revamped this law too.

 

[reesek]

Dubai govt has a lot of shares in Emaar. I doubt they will allow them to fail. Emaar, Nakheel and Damac are 3 major players here. Trumps significant branding is on a Damac tower here as well as Golf gardens. There are lot of US investors here.

exactly . coz it failed before and was bailed out. twice

 

[CaptK]

Dubai govt has a lot of shares in Emaar. I doubt they will allow them to fail. Emaar, Nakheel and Damac are 3 major players here. Trumps significant branding is on a Damac tower here as well as Golf gardens. There are lot of US investors here.

State run companies were never meant to be profitable until 2030. The UAE is desert which is slowly becoming green. Land for the state companies is not an issue. Permits and licenses are not an issue. When you can attract the world's best professionals and companies with a good lifestyle and tax free living then why wouldn't they come.

Emirates airlines makes a loss even though they are massive worldwide sponsors especially in sport. Shk Maktoum is gearing the UAE to be a power house and when his son is king he will be a world leader. He is British Military school educated and very astute individual.
His father has ensured that he will continue the work he has started and being a gateway to Europe, Africa and the far east they are strategically placed for business.

 

[BlueMist]

State run companies were never meant to be profitable until 2030. The UAE is desert which is slowly becoming green. Land for the state companies is not an issue. Permits and licenses are not an issue. When you can attract the world's best professionals and companies with a good lifestyle and tax free living then why wouldn't they come.

Emirates airlines makes a loss even though they are massive worldwide sponsors especially in sport. Shk Maktoum is gearing the UAE to be a power house and when his son is king he will be a world leader. He is British Military school educated and very astute individual.
His father has ensured that he will continue the work he has started and being a gateway to Europe, Africa and the far east they are strategically placed for business.

The real question is whether you can really attract the world's best professionals to come to the desert? I know many who would not move here, simply because it is a muslim country with shariah laws in place.

Again I don't know what you are selling, but you definitely not seem to be living in UAE. I have nothing to sell, so I share my knowledge. There are no kings here, it is not Jordan or KSA (often confused with UAE). Sheikh Maktoum is a ruler of Dubai and prime minister of the UAE. The president of the UAE is Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, who is a ruler of Abu Dhabi. The reason why we see Burj Khalifa in Dubai is because Dubai was bailed out by "rich brother" Abu Dhabi. There are 5 other rulers, since UAE consist of 7 emirates. So we have no kings here. In fact, similarly to USA states, each of the Emirate may have different rules in place, however apart from Dubai, other emirates are dependent on Abu Dhabi foreign policy.

This pandemic especially has shown how two big Sheikhs see things differently. One is super rich and can close UAE for as long as it takes, while the other has more casual approach. Abu Dhabi basically do not want tourists, in fact the capital is closed since more than 1 month to UAE residents/tourists. If you want to enter Abu Dhabi, you need to have a valid Covid test from the past 24 hours EACH time you want to travel or return to Abu Dhabi even from Dubai. There are residents who were unable to return to UAE since March, either due to lack of flights or their approvals for return were rejected. Since Dubai and Abu Dhabi have different foreign policy in place, there are different national offices and rules handling the permits. There are different rules if you are Dubai visa holder or visa holder from other emirates, there are also different rules if you land in Abu Dhabi or in Dubai.

There is a clear (if you can read between the lines) message from UAE authorities to not travel both in and out, as they have complicated things to the point where the average tourist will not come back quickly. There is now Covid test required (for all) and permit to return (for residents) before you can board the plane. For the family of 4 with kids above 12 years, that means they have to spent approx. €600 (€150 per Covid test) before they can even board the plane to UAE and if positive, they will risk of losing airfares and cash secured to book a hotel. So obviously most will want to avoid this hassle and choose some other destination.

 

[CaptK]

Indeed you are correct but I simplified it so those who are not in the know have a bit of insight.

Abuse Dhabi is the big boy of the Emirates and they dont need, want or feel that they need anyone or anything. Their main source of income is Oil and at some point it will run out or not be in demand due to global warming. Everything is going electric and eventually hydro cell energy. Then where will they be.
Qatar also bailed out the Dubai and that's why they own the whole Creek area in Dubai. Qatar have just as much money as Saudi Arabia and when they started flexing their muscle Saudi Arabia started the bulls**t we have seen in the news. Everyone in the GCC followed except for Oman who have always been seen as the runt of the litter. They pushed out Iran and Iraq but that's politics and not what this forum is about.

As a regular traveller to Dubai with a business there, clients and property. I see and experience a lot in the last 12 years. I see where its going and what it will become. I have Expat clients who work in the GCC and spend their weekends in Dubai, so that's a good indication of its viability.

The ruler of Dubai has put a plan in place to make it the number one destination in the world and he is on his way to doing so. I have put a little link to show you how forward thinking he is. Just see the link below, without people having ease of coming in and out business will not pick up.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[reesek]

oh common we are not talking the 2k/tree that gov spends distorting market for trees
we are talking real estate which is NOT a good investment EXACTLY because the market is distorted and oversupplied, one can never estimate how much unsold inventory there is and what bank will be ordered to hold that

you get exactly what has to happen in this environment - sliding down prices AND sliding down rents
there will NEVER be a trendy rise in per sq m until excess inventory is depleted. just laws of economics

 

[Davis123]

oh common we are not talking the 2k/tree that gov spends distorting market for trees
we are talking real estate which is NOT a good investment EXACTLY because the market is distorted and oversupplied, one can never estimate how much unsold inventory there is and what bank will be ordered to hold that

you get exactly what has to happen in this environment - sliding down prices AND sliding down rents
there will NEVER be a trendy rise in per sq m until excess inventory is depleted. just laws of economics

I don't see any real estate agent around here using fly swatter to keep flies off their desks. They are quite busy selling properties to investors who are getting rid of their cryptos to buy real estate. CaptK I received an email recently from a real estate company that they would help people having cryptos to convert them to fiat to buy properties in Turkey and Dubai. I was also curious as earlier UAE did issue orders to stay away from cryptos after having a bitcoin ATM machine in 2013 in Dubai. There were companies specifically in cryptos here but after the order was issued they had to wind up and leave. If Tesla loop train takes off this would connect UAE so quickly with almost every GCC country and each other. There are very progressive ideas here that I saw here.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

They are quite busy selling properties to investors who are getting rid of their cryptos to buy real estate.

That’s exactly what I have heard, too: That one of the main reasons for people buying real estate in Dubai is to launder money.

 

[reesek]

also, there are schemes now to fund particular development with a haircut of per meter price if things get delayed/not sold

say you give loan at 10% per year dedicated to a specific construction project and if it fails to repay you on time you get some piece of it -50% per sq m

thats exactly the sign of an artificially inflated market price that definitely not rise in the long run and may even collapse

 

[rowena]

Guys, whole world real estate market is going down, you know right? (YTD avg -%20) [1].

I invested Dubai real estate about $1.3M last year and so far it is going as expected. My investment went down around %10 which is perfectly normal since there is pandemic and prices definitely will go up but the timing is the thing like 2008. If you don't invest before price rising, you're not going to profit. Conditions are almost the same for all countries right now.

[1]: Global Real Estate ETFs