Real Estate for Crypto (USDT/BTC/ETH/...) - where to buy in 2023?

[Dreamy]

This discussion has been periodically raised on the forum for the last 5 years, but we have not received clear answers. Perhaps something has changed this year? In which countries can you legally buy property with crypto in 2023 How do they verify your crypto? Will it be completely legal?

The question does not concern luxury villas for 10 million dollars. The question is rather ordinary real estate such as an apartment, a house, perhaps a not so huge villa somewhere by the sea or in the mountains. Interested primarily in liquid real estate, which is good for rent and for sale in the future. Well, as normal jurisdiction, I don’t think it’s a good idea to buy something for crypto in Venezuela or countries like that. I know that there are some sellers in France and Italy for example, that sell properties for crypto, but how to find trusted? Cyprus not interesting.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I just sold an apartment in Portugal for crypto. I will do the same in Italy. No problem at all, just a bit of patience when dealing with the notary and lawyer.

 

[Dreamy]

I just sold an apartment in Portugal for crypto. I will do the same in Italy. No problem at all, just a bit of patience when dealing with the notary and lawyer.

Have you listed this property on any sites? Do such sites even exist?
p.s. sorry for the impudent question - you don't believe in real estate in Europe and think that owning crypto is better?

 

[wellington]

Interested to learnt that myself.

Have you listed this property on any sites? Do such sites even exist?
p.s. sorry for the impudent question - you don't believe in real estate in Europe and think that owning crypto is better?

 

[cryptofriendly]

There are few providers of real estate for crypto in Cambodia and Thailand,
I am pretty sure you'll find some in Andorra, Estonia and Bulgaria as well.
Do you want to buy property as an investment or for yourself?

Investment wise I am making 25-120% yearly with daily put-selling bots (USDT-BTC) on a non KYC platform,
I'll keep doing that until 2025, using it as a collateral to borrow fiat then, and putting the fiat it in a whole apartment building.
If the crypto crashes after, I'll still have the apartment building and passive income from apartments, while paying no taxes on crypto gains while borrowing and not selling the cypto.
Real estate isn't as liquid as crypto, it's harder to liquidate, you have transaction costs, land taxes, tax residence issues, and lots of other worries. I wouldn't do it at the current time,
why not wait until after the halving next year?

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

This discussion has been periodically raised on the forum for the last 5 years, but we have not received clear answers. Perhaps something has changed this year? In which countries can you legally buy property with crypto in 2023 How do they verify your crypto? Will it be completely legal?

Dubai is prime for this, they check your funds tho but the process is smooth.

 

[CyprusLawyer101]

For Cyprus we can handle such transactions including the locating of a property available for crypto. But for other jurisdictions I remember someone in this forum has advertise his company handling acquisitions of real estate for crypto, but i dont recall exactly who. Maybe try to search a bit on the forums.

 

[Dreamy]

There are few providers of real estate for crypto in Cambodia and Thailand,
I am pretty sure you'll find some in Andorra, Estonia and Bulgaria as well.
Do you want to buy property as an investment or for yourself?

Investment wise I am making 25-120% yearly with daily put-selling bots (USDT-BTC) on a non KYC platform,
I'll keep doing that until 2025, using it as a collateral to borrow fiat then, and putting the fiat it in a whole apartment building.
If the crypto crashes after, I'll still have the apartment building and passive income from apartments, while paying no taxes on crypto gains while borrowing and not selling the cypto.
Real estate isn't as liquid as crypto, it's harder to liquidate, you have transaction costs, land taxes, tax residence issues, and lots of other worries. I wouldn't do it at the current time,
why not wait until after the halving next year?

Yeah, Andorra looks interesting, but where to find such propositions exactly?

Cambodia and Thailan

Not looks like safety for such things like buying for crypto imo

Yes, this is mostly for investment. And yeah, not right now, maybe in a half a year or later.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Have you listed this property on any sites? Do such sites even exist?

I have just spread the voice around, I sold it before I even started marketing it officially. The area is in high demand and inventory is scarce, so it was an easy sale.

p.s. sorry for the impudent question - you don't believe in real estate in Europe and think that owning crypto is better?

I don’t believe in the EU, so I’m liquidating everything that I still own there. Crypto is not better or worse than anything, it’s just a tool, it depends what you need it for. For sure I prefer to hold crypto than anything else that can be seized.

For Cyprus we can handle such transactions including the locating of a property available for crypto. But for other jurisdictions I remember someone in this forum has advertise his company handling acquisitions of real estate for crypto, but i dont recall exactly who. Maybe try to search a bit on the forums.

One can sell his property for anything, being it fiat, crypto or sea shells. It’s just a question of writing the deed in the right way.

 

[Don]

I have just spread the voice around, I sold it before I even started marketing it officially. The area is in high demand and inventory is scarce, so it was an easy sale.

I don’t believe in the EU, so I’m liquidating everything that I still own there. Crypto is not better or worse than anything, it’s just a tool, it depends what you need it for. For sure I prefer to hold crypto than anything else that can be seized.


One can sell his property for anything, being it fiat, crypto or sea shells. It’s just a question of writing the deed in the right way.

Bartering involves directly exchanging goods without using money, while selling involves exchanging goods or services for money as a medium of exchange.
Crypto is not money so technically (in correct English and legal terms) you cannot sell but have to barter the property for crypto.

Ezekiel 25:17

 

[wellington]

There are few providers of real estate for crypto in Cambodia and Thailand,
I am pretty sure you'll find some in Andorra, Estonia and Bulgaria as well.
Do you want to buy property as an investment or for yourself?

Investment wise I am making 25-120% yearly with daily put-selling bots (USDT-BTC) on a non KYC platform,
I'll keep doing that until 2025, using it as a collateral to borrow fiat then, and putting the fiat it in a whole apartment building.
If the crypto crashes after, I'll still have the apartment building and passive income from apartments, while paying no taxes on crypto gains while borrowing and not selling the cypto.
Real estate isn't as liquid as crypto, it's harder to liquidate, you have transaction costs, land taxes, tax residence issues, and lots of other worries. I wouldn't do it at the current time,
why not wait until after the halving next year?

Thailand is territorial tax based, if you own a overseas company in a tax haven and have a employee and trade via that company and liquidate, and then wait till the proceeding tax year, you can invest that money into real estate via KYC exchanges without any issues as it's legally tax free.

If you invest money without KYC (off-boarding) the AML office may target you in the future and they do things 'criminally' - not civil that means immediate detainment and sentenced to prison until you get bail (if you can).

Bartering involves directly exchanging goods without using money, while selling involves exchanging goods or services for money as a medium of exchange.
Crypto is not money so technically (in correct English and legal terms) you cannot sell but have to barter the property for crypto.

Ezekiel 25:17

@JohnnyDoe i responded to you here Where can you buy Real Estate for cash in EU? (must have missed previously).

Investment wise I am making 25-120% yearly with daily put-selling bots (USDT-BTC) on a non KYC platform,
I'll keep doing that until 2025, using it as a collateral to borrow fiat then, and putting the fiat it in a whole apartment building.
If the crypto crashes after, I'll still have the apartment building and passive income from apartments, while paying no taxes on crypto gains while borrowing and not selling the cypto.
Real estate isn't as liquid as crypto, it's harder to liquidate, you have transaction costs, land taxes, tax residence issues, and lots of other worries. I wouldn't do it at the current time,
why not wait until after the halving next year?

Just an FYI we have a townhouse-office-home-office property down south (Phuket) that has stood empty for 4+ years - not got round to doing anything with it, except having maintenance done annually.

Would be selling below market (considerably) just to get shot off it without having to deal with agents, on the same road (as homes) properties rent for 15,000 THB, with Phase 3 external extensions downstairs and upstairs front, and downstairs back, it's probably had around 3.9m THB in total go into it - closed the business down during covid - back office - would let it go for around 2.4m THB if that's your thing, centre of the island, just off the 4 lane motorway, and all the nearby ammenties one would require, as a office i'd imagine 20-25,000/30,000 THB max return a month.

taxes 50/50 (believe its still low)

 

[Mercury]

Investment wise I am making 25-120% yearly with daily put-selling bots (USDT-BTC) on a non KYC platform,
I'll keep doing that until 2025, using it as a collateral to borrow fiat then, and putting the fiat it in a whole apartment building.

That's interesting. Would you mind sharing the structure you are using (platform you borrow fiat from, crypto-friendly bank you transfer to)?

 

[cryptofriendly]

That's interesting. Would you mind sharing the structure you are using (platform you borrow fiat from, crypto-friendly bank you transfer to)?

There are countless options for the borrowing, from centralized exchanges like Binance, crypto.com and Nexo, offering LTV of around 70% and bank transfer/or using their debit card to get the FIAT, or decentralized options like makerdao, alchemix. aave, with no need for any KYC. Or the newcomers, offering zero interest loans, sovryn and abra. The decentralized options give you USDT or other stablecoins, to convert them into fiat you could use your usual bank directly (depending how crypto friendly they are), or transfer the USDT to Kraken and use them for the bank transfer (they are licensed pretty much everywhere, and most banks don't have any issues with receiving transfers from them. Other options are to use Swissquote with funding through USDT and cashing out to the bank, or using the smaller Swiss providers with minimal KYC like mt.pelerin for the conversion and transfer to bank. If you prefer more anonymity, there are such options as Bitcoin ATMs, BTC cashout at physical exchanges like in Poland, Turkey and Georgia, or (depends where you live) use an offshore bank account for that.

But it's actually easy, I just listed many options.
Just use nexo. Add some BTC to nexo and borrow directly USD your balance and transfer it immediately to your local bank. USD arrives in your bank account. As no crypto sale happened here, it's just a loan of USD. No crypto taxes. No income taxes. No issues.

Got timed out while editing, here the rest:

Why not use nexo and check the other options? High interest, about 13.9% interest on the loan (if you don't pay interest or pay back the loan, it will liquidate your BTC holdings when it's less than the LTV after a while). If you borrow the money when BTC spikes and you think that it might not go up anymore, you take the loan and it will liquidate after it drops -30%. If it goes up, you keep taking more loan. Depending on the situation, it might be a more profitable approach than selling out too early, it works like a stop loss with repayment option as long as the stop loss level isn't triggered.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Why not use nexo and check the other options? High interest, about 13.9% interest on the loan (if you don't pay interest or pay back the loan, it will liquidate your BTC holdings when it's less than the LTV after a while). If you borrow the money when BTC spikes and you think that it might not go up anymore, you take the loan and it will liquidate after it drops -30%. If it goes up, you keep taking more loan. Depending on the situation, it might be a more profitable approach than selling out too early, it works like a stop loss with repayment option as long as the stop loss level isn't triggered.

*FrenchKiss

 

[Jorozey]

I am actually currently selling a property that I was considering renovating for a summer villa in Shabla, Bulgaria, but the plans fell through... Within a 5-15km range there is a rich variety of beautiful beaches and views. I accept payments in BTC and USDT(55k EUR in BTC/USDT) it's literally a gift, I have a lawyer who will prepare all the documents, if anyone is interested PM me

p.s. In Bulgaria you can do it legally, it is enough only that the seller agrees and accepts BTC as a payment method

 

[Mercury]

Why not use nexo and check the other options? High interest, about 13.9% interest on the loan (if you don't pay interest or pay back the loan, it will liquidate your BTC holdings when it's less than the LTV after a while). If you borrow the money when BTC spikes and you think that it might not go up anymore, you take the loan and it will liquidate after it drops -30%. If it goes up, you keep taking more loan. Depending on the situation, it might be a more profitable approach than selling out too early, it works like a stop loss with repayment option as long as the stop loss level isn't triggered.

Liquidation is a taxable event. But indeed you can avoid it by repaying your loan with fresh cash from your rental property investment.

 

[cryptofriendly]

Liquidation is a taxable event. But indeed you can avoid it by repaying your loan with fresh cash from your rental property investment.

That's right. It could get interesting tax-wise, if you'd take out the loan which is a tax free event, move to another country afterwards and become a resident (or even just cease to be a resident in the origin country, and not spend more than a month or two in various countries, and that liquidation taking place then. It's too complicated for myself to figure out what issues it would have if one moved to Malaysia, Taiwan, or some other place with territorial taxation only, but for places like Germany and others which allow tax free crypto sales after a holding period of 12 months or so, borrowing against crypto would be a way to cash out without paying taxes while that 'holding period' is still running. Even as a non-German but EU citizen, you could even go so far as borrowing against crypto, using the money, and after that 12 months of the original buy of BTC passed, you could actually register in Germany and sell the BTC if you'd like. Borrowing against crypto seems to offer many opportunities, repaying the loan with income from rental property sounds like a good idea if one expects the BTC cycles to keep repeating after 2025.

 

[kunafa]

Some developers and RE agents take crypto in Montenegro. Mostly for high end developments. Luštica bay & Dukley gardens for example.

PS: The whole Ethereum foundation crew including Vitalik is in Luštica Bay.