Question Crypto to fiat cash out

[GendalfB]

Hello everyone.

I have couple of banks in mind (Swiss and UAE) to set up account. Main purpose - cash out crypto to fiat.

What is better: 1 - to be proactive and discuss with bank main purpose, show all the proof of legality of my crypto, solve all the possible questions upfront. To prevent red flags and account block. 2- just open the account and wait for possible questions.

Would be great to have an opinion of those who have a relative experience.

 

[VESTANON]

Banks and Crypto at the moment has abit iffy, and has been that way for awhile thus far, you can either go the EMI route which is more a 50/50 route.(they either accept/the accept and freeze you at some point)..

take the offshore Company establishment route and get window shopping for a bank that would onboard your offshore company+plus crypto cashout route opsec.

Or simply cut the chase and get a crypto card for Fiat withdrawals at your local ATM..though this option is suitable for an average cashout volume of crypto to fiat volumes of 30k$-40k$ at most monthly...

 

[GendalfB]

Thanks! That is interesting.

Second way would not let me to legalize crypto funds? Right?

 

[VESTANON]

Thanks! That is interesting.

Second way would not let me to legalize crypto funds? Right?

Yes the second option is and has been quite tricky, folks who executed successfully had to mix up Emi/banking/and wallets to execute successfully and at that its always short term..

 

[GendalfB]

Alright.
I’ll try to stick to something like first way.
Anyway thank you for ideas!

 

[CaptK]

UAE banks are ok with Crypto payments but again it depends on the buyer where they are and their profile.

If you sell to local buyers it's ok but international buyers could cause you a lot of paperwork.

 

[nomad999]

you can buy gold with your crypto and then sell the gold for fiat, the banks shouldn't blink too much depending on your history with them. you'll lose a bit but this should definitely make your fund 100% legit.

 

[troubled soul]

Banks and Crypto at the moment has abit iffy, and has been that way for awhile thus far, you can either go the EMI route which is more a 50/50 route.(they either accept/the accept and freeze you at some point)..

take the offshore Company establishment route and get window shopping for a bank that would onboard your offshore company+plus crypto cashout route opsec.

Or simply cut the chase and get a crypto card for Fiat withdrawals at your local ATM..though this option is suitable for an average cashout volume of crypto to fiat volumes of 30k$-40k$ at most monthly...

If you have bit amount to convert than and than corp registration and all other circus worth it .
Use the Bitcoin ATM or Visa card for low level of conversion.

 

[GendalfB]

UAE banks are ok with Crypto payments but again it depends on the buyer where they are and their profile.

If you sell to local buyers it's ok but international buyers could cause you a lot of paperwork.

Interesting. Could you explain a bit about «buyers”?
I mean there are Kraken (international exchange with UAE financial services permission since 2019), BitOasis (local exchange seeking UAE regulatory approval) and others.
Selling crypto you don’t know who’s going to buy it on these exchanges. And why’s it matters to local banks?

 

[CaptK]

There are many Crypto buyers in the UAE, they will buy from you on a face to face meeting.
Because they are local with ID cards and bank accounts you can sell to them and they can give you a copy of their ID card or business liscence.
The buying and selling of crypto is legal in the UAE but the use as a currency to buy and sell goods is not.

 

[VESTANON]

If you have bit amount to convert than and than corp registration and all other circus worth it .
Use the Bitcoin ATM or Visa card for low level of conversion.

BTC atm are not located everywhere Globally, And Most BTC Atm are setup in Cafes,areas flooded with cameras, and as such anonymity is non existence at best...

Visa Card would workout, and How would OP load up the visa card?

 

[GendalfB]

There are many Crypto buyers in the UAE, they will buy from you on a face to face meeting.
Because they are local with ID cards and bank accounts you can sell to them and they can give you a copy of their ID card or business liscence.
The buying and selling of crypto is legal in the UAE but the use as a currency to buy and sell goods is not.

Interesting.
Could you help with some questions?:

1. Is it correct that UAE banks compliance much more OK with money, received via P2P crypto to fiat trade through paper agreement than from crypto exchange?
2. Can seller ask for bank transfer payment or it’s cash only?
3. What is total cost of such transactions? (Lawyer fees and other.)
4. What should I be aware of doing such trades? (trying to grasp possible risks).
5. Should I (if possible) be cautious to whom I sell crypto? (In terms of further legality my funds).

 

[Txaxandlxaxwxyxexr]

There are many Crypto buyers in the UAE, they will buy from you on a face to face meeting.
Because they are local with ID cards and bank accounts you can sell to them and they can give you a copy of their ID card or business liscence.
The buying and selling of crypto is legal in the UAE but the use as a currency to buy and sell goods is not.

"The buying and selling of crypto is legal in the UAE but the use as a currency to buy and sell goods is not"
Hi CaptK. I always discover something reading yours comment.
Do you mean that a business formed in dubai cannot accept crypto as a payment (if both parties agreed upon)? Do you have any link where I can check this prevision?
Because pretty recently even some free zone in uae start accepting bitcoin as payment, and seem to me strange that this is still prohibited to company, especially companies operating internationally outside uae (for the free zone accepting bitcoin, here is one of the articles that spoke about it: Dubai Free Zone Becomes First UAE Government Entity to Accept Bitcoin - CoinDesk).
What about real estate. I was under the impression that buying real estate with crypto was allow in uae. Do you confirm?
They even start tokenizing some properties from what I know...

 

[CaptK]

What they don't tell you is there is an intermediary who you send the coins to. He will then convert to AED/USD and then payment is made.
Normally the intermediary is the part of the business and use their own funds against the crypto payment.
The property guys realized that this is a good way to do business and payment is immediate and mitigates any funds being blocked.
I use my Kraken account to receive payment convert immediately depending on where the market is and pay out.
Invoice can not show any mention of any digital currency but only real fiat currency.

 

[Txaxandlxaxwxyxexr]

What they don't tell you is there is an intermediary who you send the coins to. He will then convert to AED/USD and then payment is made.
Normally the intermediary is the part of the business and use their own funds against the crypto payment.
The property guys realized that this is a good way to do business and payment is immediate and mitigates any funds being blocked.
I use my Kraken account to receive payment convert immediately depending on where the market is and pay out.
Invoice can not show any mention of any digital currency but only real fiat currency.

"Invoice can not show any mention of any digital currency but only real fiat currency".
I am thinking more about the case of two people that agree on doing and receiving the payment in crypto without intermediary.
What if the invoice is in fiat currency and the payment (the buyer convert the fiat in crypto before paying) is made in crypto?
Do you think this could fall under the bounds of the law? And in any case, what if people do that. Do you have any indication on the prevision that prohibit this so i can check if and what penalty is there.

 

[CaptK]

"Invoice can not show any mention of any digital currency but only real fiat currency".
I am thinking more about the case of two people that agree on doing and receiving the payment in crypto without intermediary.
What if the invoice is in fiat currency and the payment (the buyer convert the fiat in crypto before paying) is made in crypto?
Do you think this could fall under the bounds of the law? And in any case, what if people do that. Do you have any indication on the prevision that prohibit this so i can check if and what penalty is there.

If it's a private transaction so it shouldn't be an issue. The invoice shows a fiat currency then you won't have a problem.

Know who you are dealing with.

 

[nomad999]

If it's a private transaction so it shouldn't be an issue. The invoice shows a fiat currency then you won't have a problem.

Know who you are dealing with.

Are there audits requirements that require to show bank transactions occuring in the local currency or similar ?

 

[Hydrogene75]

It's best to avoid traditional banks. Money exchangers like Neteller, Paysera, transferwise, coinbase are preferable to launder your crypto since they don't report transactions as long as the deposits don't exceed 10,000 Euros per month in each exchanger.

 

[CaptK]

Are there audits requirements that require to show bank transactions occuring in the local currency or similar ?

No audit because UAE is tax free. If the buyer is a local residents then you are ok.

 

[Fred]

No audit because UAE is tax free. If the buyer is a local residents then you are ok.

Exactly.

Beside of that:

You can cover the cash out as business earnings of the company as business earnings are not limited and the proof of funds is super easy.

Don't forget it you cash out in the millions every new bank you want to work with asks for proof of funds. Nothing is better then mention high salary of a Dubai company you setup and worked there as Managing Director.

The Dubai Company comes with a residence visa that grants you zero tax. So it's super easy to obtain and very affordable. Much less then the zero tax citizenship or golden visa programs out there. Plus cashing out millions as private person will always rais questions and red flags and you limit yourself to banks that accept your crypto cash out proof of funds. As you know that's not that easy.

So just setup your Dubai Company cover the cash out as business earnings with workarounds we provide, pay you the earnings as salary with the amounts you mentioned and after received few millions in salary you can have a conversation with the privat banks in the DIFC here in Dubai.

I see that many people facing your current situation and even if they get something cashed out they will face huge troubles afterwards getting serious banking with the big ones like UBS.