Crypto trader, hodler - bank acc and relocation

[cryptoholic]

Hello everyone.

Would like to ask some questions about relocation and opening a bank acc as a crypto trader and hodler.

What I have:
1) I live in a country where crypto and trading are not regulated. Which means it's not an easy task to withdraw some significant amount of money legally and pay your taxes. So you literally have to withdraw it in cash via p2p or use some other tactics like claiming an income as from a freelance job if you want to cash-out legally into the bank and pay the taxes.
2) I live in a third-world country which means owning significant amount of money in crypto could attract some unwanted attention. Eastern Europe country.
3) Me and my family are not EU residents.
4) I'm a hodler since early days of crypto.
5) I'm a profitable crypto trader and trading on KYC'd exchanges.
6) 99% of my wealth is in crypto. Let's say 7-8fig.

Questions:
1) Is there any easy way of relocation into European country with a reliable taxation (crypto hodling and trading) which will accept a person with 99% wealth in crypto. Of course, I'm ready to pay taxes.
2) As I researched for relocation you need to invest or put into the bank some amount of money. Will I be able to do it in the european country? As I mentioned before it's not an easy option to make it in my own country before relocation.
3) Are there any crypto-friendly bank that will accept such a person (non EU resident)? All I need is a simple bank account to be able to withdraw from crypto exchanges any time I want. Exchanges I'm using provide SWIFT(USD,EUR) and SEPA(EUR) withdrawal options.
4) What questions will bank ask before opening an account? Can a crypto trading (stacking, liquidity providing in DeFi) be considered as a source of income? I can provide my last year trading history with 7figs PnL. All crypto obtained legally but of course I don't have the receipts of my first purchases back in 2013-2015.

Switzerland is an interesting location but I'm not sure about trading taxes. Not sure about Malta and Portugal as for a living and opportunities for kids. Other locations in Europe as I understand have huge taxes.

Sorry for so many questions guys I think such questions will become more common in coming years due to crypto prices surging.

 

[Silvio]

Residency: I've heard that it is not so easy to get Switzerland residency if you are not EU based. I'm pretty sure Cyprus will be one of the easiest and cheaper too.

Banking: Don't tell any bank about crypto as it will just complicate things and lead to many rejections, and the banks that do accept crypto will charge you an arm and a leg or will ask for big investment. Open accounts at multiple banks (think retail European banks). Move money from Exchanges to EMI IBAN in your name, and then wire from these EMIs to bank account in your name. As long as money comes from an account in your name to another account in your name, banks don't ask questions.

Good luck and enjoy your profits

 

[UKCitizen]

Have you considered opening a bank account in Turkey? They issue taxation pardon almost every.year , and you may bring the money from abroad to Turkey by giving only 2 percent tax. You can even get immediate citizenship with a reasonable amount.

 

[CyprusLaw]

Hello everyone.

Would like to ask some questions about relocation and opening a bank acc as a crypto trader and hodler.

What I have:
1) I live in a country where crypto and trading are not regulated. Which means it's not an easy task to withdraw some significant amount of money legally and pay your taxes. So you literally have to withdraw it in cash via p2p or use some other tactics like claiming an income as from a freelance job if you want to cash-out legally into the bank and pay the taxes.
2) I live in a third-world country which means owning significant amount of money in crypto could attract some unwanted attention. Eastern Europe country.
3) Me and my family are not EU residents.
4) I'm a hodler since early days of crypto.
5) I'm a profitable crypto trader and trading on KYC'd exchanges.
6) 99% of my wealth is in crypto. Let's say 7-8fig.

Questions:
1) Is there any easy way of relocation into European country with a reliable taxation (crypto hodling and trading) which will accept a person with 99% wealth in crypto. Of course, I'm ready to pay taxes.

You can set up in Cyprus. Cyprus is becoming more and more crypto-friendly and a lot of traders relocate here. Even though Cyprus banks are still not crypto-friendly there a number of other options through EMIs or foreign banks.

2) As I researched for relocation you need to invest or put into the bank some amount of money. Will I be able to do it in the european country? As I mentioned before it's not an easy option to make it in my own country before relocation.

An investment would be needed if the intention is to get permanent residence for example. If you are not looking for doing this then you can get other types of permits which do not require an investment.

3) Are there any crypto-friendly bank that will accept such a person (non EU resident)? All I need is a simple bank account to be able to withdraw from crypto exchanges any time I want. Exchanges I'm using provide SWIFT(USD,EUR) and SEPA(EUR) withdrawal options.

As above, there are options with EMIs and foreign banks which can accommodate your needs through a Cyprus company.

4) What questions will bank ask before opening an account? Can a crypto trading (stacking, liquidity providing in DeFi) be considered as a source of income? I can provide my last year trading history with 7figs PnL. All crypto obtained legally but of course I don't have the receipts of my first purchases back in 2013-2015.

Each bank/emi has its own KYC, in any event you would need to get a lawyer first who would pass you through his own KYC so you will have an indication there.

Switzerland is an interesting location but I'm not sure about trading taxes. Not sure about Malta and Portugal as for a living and opportunities for kids. Other locations in Europe as I understand have huge taxes.

Corporate tax in Cyprus is 12.5% on profit. If you relocate in Cyprus you will get a non-dom status which means that you would have a number of benefits, including dividends being tax exempt (you would only pay 2.65% on dividend for the national health system - which is essentially another benefit for you as you will have access to the Cyprus NHS.)

Sorry for so many questions guys I think such questions will become more common in coming years due to crypto prices surging.

Please do let me know if you have any other questions or need further clarifications about Cyprus.

 

[Allisgood]

Which Eastern European country are you from ? This detail would make it much easier to recommend a strategy.

 

[CaptK]

Your need to structure the exit to another EU country so you walk in on day 1, with 1M cash in the bank to take care of you and the family. Then whatever your trade profits are you can pay tax on your earnings going forward as stated.
Banking would not be a problem and crypto as a source can be dealt with. Switzerland, Montenegro, and Malta you can find banks to help

Pick a country you would most like to live in, then everything from there is just a formality.
Check their criteria to gain residency and then make the application once you have all the paperwork in place and you have the right structure to support it.

If at worst you need a way to get in without scrutiny then purchase a 2nd Citizenship which would be invaluable to you to move around and open offshore accounts and because you get Schengen you can move about from country to country to find the one you want to live in.
This also helps in the future when wanting to move around also and gaining residency in Europe.

Questions:
1) Is there any easy way of relocation into European country with a reliable taxation (crypto hodling and trading) which will accept a person with 99% wealth in crypto. Of course, I'm ready to pay taxes.

Yes
What I would suggest is use a gateway country like Andorra, San Marino or Montenegro to open a bank account. to put in there enough to keep you going and begin your exit.

2) As I researched for relocation you need to invest or put into the bank some amount of money. Will I be able to do it in the european country? As I mentioned before it's not an easy option to make it in my own country before relocation.

With the right bank you can easily have the funds required to make the investment required to do so.

3) Are there any crypto-friendly bank that will accept such a person (non EU resident)? All I need is a simple bank account to be able to withdraw from crypto exchanges any time I want. Exchanges I'm using provide SWIFT(USD,EUR) and SEPA(EUR) withdrawal options.

There are plenty of EMI's and a few bans you can utilise but not many for non EU residents. There is a way around that also.

4) What questions will bank ask before opening an account? Can a crypto trading (stacking, liquidity providing in DeFi) be considered as a source of income? I can provide my last year trading history with 7figs PnL. All crypto obtained legally but of course I don't have the receipts of my first purchases back in 2013-2015.

Yes if you have the evidence there are definitely options.

Switzerland is an interesting location but I'm not sure about trading taxes. Not sure about Malta and Portugal as for a living and opportunities for kids. Other locations in Europe as I understand have huge taxes.

Sorry for so many questions guys I think such questions will become more common in coming years due to crypto prices surging.

 

[John Spectre]

For the respect to all the people suggest ideas, its a just a funny to hear how to cashout 1-10millons of $ from emi to retail banks.
Guys, are you joke? You want OP to spend all his life to route cashout to 100+ retail banks?)

I am at same boat as OP, and I could suggest the residency is RU, UA or BY.
1. Most of all retail banks in Europe/World will deny to open account for you, because no connection to the country where bank located.
2. Your country considered high risk, so prepare for deep compliance for pure white money, no for some grey crypto. Just because for residency. 'EMI to bank' solution will stop to work just after pass 5k/10k/50k total transfer to some bank.
3. Banks is cyprus, malta, montenegro are not reliable for big sums. And only ME banks from above are crypto friendly. Cyprus banks will just kick you out with crypto money.
4. The more or less reliable way to cashout 1+m$ from crypto is to:
- obtain 100% tax free residency for crypto, so banks not reject you because tax evasion.
- found the respectable private banks who could hold your millions

 

[John Spectre]

So, the way for cashout is:
- got UAE residency for legally cashout crypto without tax. This could be done with UAE visa + UAE local company + live there 1year to be real UAE resident.
- cashout part of crypto with UAE company scheme provided by guys like Fred or CaptK
- after getting UAE residency and leaving residency of your original country, found few or one swiss private bank and cashout millions there.
There are companies like altcoinomy who could help you with opening swiss private banks and make crypto SOF. So you will be able to cashout directly from binance/bistamp/kraken hundreds of thousands euro without pain in a*s from banks side.


So, the real problem here is that this is long time solution, which requires at least 1 year to obtain real UAE residency and your willing to relocate.

 

[CaptK]

So, the way is to:
- got UAE residency for legally cashout crypto without tax. This could be done with UAE visa + UAE local company.
- cashout part of crypto with UAE company scheme provided by guys like Fred or CaptK
- after getting UAE residency and leaving residency of your original country, found few or one swiss private bank and cashout millions there.

Some Swiss banks will open an account for you when you are not an EU resident but there are conditions like term deposit requirements.
Otherwise the UAE option is bullet proof but I would disagree with Montenegro they are reliable banks CKB but again he only needs to pull out what he needs to gain residency then look for better options once his status is settled.

Due to his citizenship believe it or not, its wise to obtain a second citizenship that gives you more options.

 

[John Spectre]

Some Swiss banks will open an account for you when you are not an EU resident but there are conditions like term deposit requirements.
Otherwise the UAE option is bullet proof but I would disagree with Montenegro they are reliable banks CKB but again he only needs to pull out what he needs to gain residency then look for better options once his status is settled.

Due to his citizenship believe it or not, its wise to obtain a second citizenship that gives you more options.

Swiss banks will open account as is, but it will not answer to question about tax evasion.
When bank report his account with millions to the taxman via CRS, OP will have huge problems with it in home. And problem not it level of taxes, but in the way that they can't be declared/paid legally, due to stupidity of tax laws in such countries.

Thats why UAE pure residency is required here as first step of cashout.

With CKB i agree its most reliable bank in ME, but here 2 problems:
1. With applying to CRS, ME banks are starting to close non resident accounts. My accounts with NLB and Erste was already closed. CKB is opened, but how long it will be its a open question.
For avoid this problem, of course, workarounds like buy some apartment in ME could work. So banks will not close accounts.
In any way, CKB is reliable to hold not more 50k EUR as deposit protection summ, which at least 20 times smaller amount for cashout.

2. I don't tried directly crypto cashout to CKB, but their compliance most complex from all ME banks. If they don't allow crypto in first place - not big sense for OP with this bank.

 

[CaptK]

Swiss banks will open account as is, but it will not answer to question about tax evasion.
When bank report his account with millions to the taxman via CRS, OP will have huge problems with it in home. And problem not it level of taxes, but in the way that they can't be declared/paid legally, due to stupidity of tax laws in such countries.

Thats why UAE pure residency is required here as first step of cashout.

With CKB i agree its most reliable bank in ME, but here 2 problems:
1. With applying to CRS, ME banks are starting to close non resident accounts. My accounts with NLB and Erste was already closed. CKB is opened, but how long it will be its a open question.
For avoid this problem, of course, workarounds like buy some apartment in ME could work. So banks will not close accounts.
In any way, CKB is reliable to hold not more 50k EUR as deposit protection summ, which at least 20 times smaller amount for cashout.

2. I don't tried directly crypto cashout to CKB, but their compliance most complex from all ME banks. If they don't allow crypto in first place - not big sense for OP with this bank.

I agree, and you can see I am a UAE advocate.

His Crypto will be cashed out once he has left but he can get a loan against it to leave his country with no issue. Like I said earlier take out what you need for now and then once you are settled you can cash out a large amount. I doubt OP wants to cash out all but I'm sure he want's at least 1-2M which in my experience is not a problem.

 

[Marc Rich]

So, the way for cashout is:
- got UAE residency for legally cashout crypto without tax. This could be done with UAE visa + UAE local company + live there 1year to be real UAE resident.
- cashout part of crypto with UAE company scheme provided by guys like Fred or CaptK
- after getting UAE residency and leaving residency of your original country, found few or one swiss private bank and cashout millions there.
There are companies like altcoinomy who could help you with opening swiss private banks and make crypto SOF. So you will be able to cashout directly from binance/bistamp/kraken hundreds of thousands euro without pain in a*s from banks side.


So, the real problem here is that this is long time solution, which requires at least 1 year to obtain real UAE residency and your willing to relocate.

in terms of getting UAE residency, this can be done in under 1 week. Not sure what is 'real' UAE residency, you just need to be not more than 6 months outside of the UAE to maintain residency i.e. come back for a day at least every 6 months

 

[John Spectre]

in terms of getting UAE residency, this can be done in under 1 week. Not sure what is 'real' UAE residency, you just need to be not more than 6 months outside of the UAE to maintain residency i.e. come back for a day at least every 6 months

Getting only UAE residency not helped here.
He must be *not* tax resident of his home country. And it could be done with real relocation for 183+ days from home country.
Because if he stay tax resident of his come country with same time tax residence in UAE, the same problems with taxman will be occured as if he just sit in home.
Skipping this step and thinking that this can't be checked in future obviously danger thing at same level as simple tax evasion.

 

[Marc Rich]

Getting only UAE residency not helped here.
He must be *not* tax resident of his home country. And it could be done with real relocation for 183+ days from home country.
Because if he stay tax resident of his come country with same time tax residence in UAE, the same problems with taxman will be occured as if he just sit in home.
Skipping this step and thinking that this can't be checked in future obviously danger thing at same level as simple tax evasion.

in this case, yes you are completely right.

 

[cryptoholic]

Thank you guys for all the answers and recommendations.

As I can assume the easiest way it to go through UAE and then relocate to some EU country with cash in bank and no direct solutions, did I get it right? Not sure I would like to deal with offshore island countries.

Also why do I need the UAE company instead of just being a simple person with a retail bank account? I guess the company should have some business activity to prove the source of funds incoming into the bank acc. In case of being a retail guy you simply could show that you are a consistently profitable trader and DeFi farmer (of course if banks are crypto friendly).

Also are there any risk to be rejected after spending so many time to get everything done? It would hurt a lot if you made all the steps and got fucked up in the end.

 

[CaptK]

Set it up properly do not be cheap with your set up and make sure the person buying the Crypto from you can give you any paperwork if the bank asks for any.

 

[Allisgood]

Thank you guys for all the answers and recommendations.

As I can assume the easiest way it to go through UAE and then relocate to some EU country with cash in bank and no direct solutions, did I get it right? Not sure I would like to deal with offshore island countries.

Also why do I need the UAE company instead of just being a simple person with a retail bank account? I guess the company should have some business activity to prove the source of funds incoming into the bank acc. In case of being a retail guy you simply could show that you are a consistently profitable trader and DeFi farmer (of course if banks are crypto friendly).

Also are there any risk to be rejected after spending so many time to get everything done? It would hurt a lot if you made all the steps and got fucked up in the end.

From personal experience (a few Golden Visa investor friends), I think Portugal could also work out. Basically get in on the Golden Visa route. From what I have heard they used to be fairly flexible on the source of funds. Maybe are still...

Also, maybe by now you can somehow find Portuguese lawyers who can help you use the crypto for the 300-500k investment.
You get residency that way and then long term crypto holdings should be tax free in Portugal (again you should check this with a few local lawyers). Unless someone has direct experience here ?

As you want to get into the EU anyways you could skip 1 year (Dubai) right away and be on a 6 year path to citizenship already. Then move to any other EU country you want after you naturalise.

Of course this depends if you can convert the crypto into the Golden Visa and they accept your source of funds. But you could confirm this with some local lawyers I am sure.

Dubai setup seems great, but if Portugal works you could save some time overall.

 

[John Spectre]

Thank you guys for all the answers and recommendations.

As I can assume the easiest way it to go through UAE and then relocate to some EU country with cash in bank and no direct solutions, did I get it right? Not sure I would like to deal with offshore island countries.

The question what EU country you are selecting.
Even with some 'wealth' and residency of UAE, you are holder of passport of risky country. So the actual relocation is EU, a bit different question.

Also why do I need the UAE company instead of just being a simple person with a retail bank account? I guess the company should have some business activity to prove the source of funds incoming into the bank acc. In case of being a retail guy you simply could show that you are a consistently profitable trader and DeFi farmer (of course if banks are crypto friendly).

First of all forget about retail bank with sums like million/s. You need private bank/s.
Bank will charge service fee for this and will provide you desired service.
Retail banks and managers that work there itself can't properly handle wealthy individuals.
(Don't mix here banks that have private and retail branches at same time. Internally it's a different ones.)

UAE company you need here for being legally in UAE and became tax resident of UAE. Nothing more.
You need to show your stay in UAE is correct according visa you receive: you 'run' some business, and live for salary/dividends of it.
Instead of running real business with UAE company, you will actually cashout your crypto to the company name and hide it, so it will looks like real business for banks.
The scheme how to hide crypto cashout under cover of 'real business' provided by guys who helped with UAE companies formations.
Remember that UAE banks don't like crypto in first hands (as well many other banks in world, as well with big sums for crypto, etc).

Also are there any risk to be rejected after spending so many time to get everything done? It would hurt a lot if you made all the steps and got fucked up in the end.

Every long time scheme that avoid some rules have risks.
But if you have wealth of 1-10millions (don't know what your wealth was before), this is life changing thing and you should think/live accordingly. Select best scheme that you could get and go the goal. Just make sure if something go wrong you will *not* lost your wealth.
Even if UAE scheme will close for crypto way, or will close even, or will close for your nationality, it still in the world ways how to cashout this: more expensive, more complex, more time costly. But they are available.

Don't even forget to the way, that country of your residence could make a law that exclude crypto from tax. It's a possible in theory.
And in that way you could make a few calls to private banks, say that you want to deposit there few millions of $/EUR to them and bank representative will fly to your home, open account for you without matter where you live, what situation is in the world, etc. So you will not need any 'scheme'.

 

[John Spectre]

From personal experience (a few Golden Visa investor friends), I think Portugal could also work out. Basically get in on the Golden Visa route. From what I have heard they used to be fairly flexible on the source of funds. Maybe are still...

Also, maybe by now you can somehow find Portuguese lawyers who can help you use the crypto for the 300-500k investment.
You get residency that way and then long term crypto holdings should be tax free in Portugal (again you should check this with a few local lawyers). Unless someone has direct experience here ?

As you want to get into the EU anyways you could skip 1 year (Dubai) right away and be on a 6 year path to citizenship already. Then move to any other EU country you want after you naturalise.

Of course this depends if you can convert the crypto into the Golden Visa and they accept your source of funds. But you could confirm this with some local lawyers I am sure.

Dubai setup seems great, but if Portugal works you could save some time overall.

The EU actively fight against gold visas if we see to the Cyprus, Malta, etc.
So the person from risky country, who got the gold visa with crypto SOF could easily be under investigation in some future with risk for recall this Visa.
Also don't forget, that OP should cashout first this money as a tax resident of his country. Without ability to do it properly. Only after it go and apply to visa with investing in Portugal.

If Portugal will accept direct crypto as investing purpose, it would be some crypto boom according it, because this way of investing available only in some banana islands for a now

 

[CyprusLaw]

The EU actively fight against gold visas if we see to the Cyprus, Malta, etc.
So the person from risky country, who got the gold visa with crypto SOF could easily be under investigation in some future with risk for recall this Visa.
Also don't forget, that OP should cashout first this money as a tax resident of his country. Without ability to do it properly. Only after it go and apply to visa with investing in Portugal.

If Portugal will accept direct crypto as investing purpose, it would be some crypto boom according it, because this way of investing available only in some banana islands for a now

Just to clarify and in order to avoid people being misinformed - The golden visa is very different to the golden passport. In Cyprus in did there was an issue with the golden passport (citizenship by investment) which is no longer available. On the other hand, Golden Visa (permanent residence scheme) had no issues, is still available and has even been improved recently (with investment scope expanded to cover more than just property investments). With the permanent residence you can get citizenship after 5 years. Also, the permanent residence can be achieved with an investment around EURO 300,000 .